Judges HATE This: How One Dad Mastered Family Court Without a Lawyer - Ben Schooley || DPTSP #162

[00:00:00] Today's guest is proof that the worst chapter of your life can become your greatest qualification. Ben Schooley never wanted an education in family law, but when his second marriage failed after the birth of his third child, he got one anyway. Four years, dozens of hearings, and countless motions later, Ben emerged not just as a father who kept his kids, but as a man who mastered the courtroom from the inside out. He's represented himself in more pro se hearings than most attorneys have attended.

[00:00:30] Helped rescue judges, worked with the Texas Bar on attorney misconduct, and even seen a judge voted out of office. Sweet. Today, as CEO and founder of The Pro Se Coach, Ben helps men over 40 fight for their parental rights with strength, knowledge, and integrity without losing their sanity or life savings. Please welcome Ben and tell us about yourself, Ben, and we'll go from there. Ben Schooley, Man, thank you so much for having me. I'm stoked to be doing this.

[00:00:58] As you said, I'm from a small town in the middle of Texas, and my first marriage, we did 50-50 and no child support, never went to port again. She used to stay in my house on Christmas Eve so that she could be there for Christmas morning when those years aligned. So we certainly had our dust-ups, but we never really had any major issues there. There was no problems. But yeah, divorce number two happened and it kind of knocked the knees out of me because I didn't expect it to go the way that it did.

[00:01:27] But the allegations started flying. I couldn't get in front of that. There was no way I could afford an attorney to deal with as much stuff that was coming at me. And so I was forced to sit down and learn something I never ever wanted to learn, much less thought I would have to learn, and that was family law system. But you mentioned a judge, again, small town. We had one singular judge. He refused to follow the law.

[00:01:52] The long story short of that is that he was voted out of office because I made every decision he made public, very public. It did not follow the law. Wow. And so after 18 years, he's playing golf today. So that was a feather in my cap. But after I got out of all of that racket, I didn't even consider this as any sort of a job or a company or anything.

[00:02:19] But I simply started answering questions of people online that I knew the answers to. How do I do this? How do I do that? And so at that time, I was posting magazines, actually, of my past, because I was a magazine publisher in Central Texas. And the more questions I answered, the more I found myself on phone calls with people that were freaking out and trying to learn how to do this. And it just started taking over more and more of my day.

[00:02:43] So what became a hobby, I realized quickly that there is a tremendous demand for people, especially men, to understand how this works and how they can advocate for themselves and their children without going bankrupt. And so I spun off Pro Se Coach, which is the name of my business. Again, as a side hustle, within about six months, it was all I was doing. Seven days a week. No more magazines. It was all I was doing.

[00:03:10] I sold my magazine company and I've been doing this full time since about 2019. But I've been doing this roughly right around 10 years. And it's a very rewarding job for me to take people who are essentially hopeless. The most common thing I think that I run into for guys in particular is she just won't let me see the kids. And this happens across the country. And then guys, I went and talked to an attorney and they want a $10,000 retainer and I don't have it. So I guess I'm just screwed.

[00:03:38] And so I enjoy taking them and saying, no, you're not. It'll take us 90 minutes to put together an enforcement motion, which I will show you how to do. And then we will go to court and you will get relief. You will get access back to your children. Bingo, bango. Bingo, bango. And so that's a lot of fun for me to do that on a daily basis to return fathers to their children and to give them hope, which is really the underlying emotion that they really need.

[00:04:06] Since then, I wrote a book which came out in 2025, which I'm very proud of. It was the, as you can find on Amazon. It's quite thick. It's 300,000 pages, but it's virtually everything I've learned. A lot of people that call me do not have a lot of money because if you have a lot of money, you just have been taught to go through it at a turning. So people that talk to me oftentimes have budget constraints and so they can't work with me at all.

[00:04:31] And so that's where the book came from, which is look, if you can't work with me, at least get the book because it will at least explain step by step those very things that you and I would be talking about one to one. I also started a thing called Pro Se University, which you can find on my website, which is long form video courses for the same topics, enforcements, modifications, divorce, et cetera, and how you can do it yourself. And so that's the nuts and bolts of me, my man.

[00:04:59] Explain to people out there what Pro Se means. Pro Se is self-representation. You do not, there's, people ask me all the time, can I do this if I'm Pro Se? Can I file this document? Can I, like, for example, can I subpoena someone? Can I, yeah, the answer 100% is yes to everything. You do not need an attorney for anything in family law. If you're in a super complicated business situation, you probably need an attorney.

[00:05:29] Okay. Because we're getting into some, some legalities that really need someone with some knowledge to that level. Family law. I tell it, I just tell everybody family law is kindergarten. It is so simple. But people just because they assume that it is, because of the legal arena, that it is highly complicated and complex and et cetera, et cetera. It is not. It is quite simple. But Pro Se simply means that representing yourself.

[00:05:58] That you are your own attorney. You act like your own attorney. You talk to the judge, like you're an attorney. You talk to the opposing counsel, like you're an attorney. You talk to the courthouse itself, like you're an attorney. Because by definition, you are, you are representing yourself. So, you are. You're going to be a attorney. You are.

[00:06:28] You're going to be a attorney for your legal battle. Okay. it's pretty universal across most 50 states. I've worked with people in right now, I think right at 40 different states. And it's universal that the legislatures equip judges with what they call discretion.

[00:06:57] They equip it under discretion under the best interest of the child. Okay. The best interest of the child has literally no legal definition. It has never been defined. So you go to court, judge doesn't like your haircut. My discretion says that I now can do anything I want. That is exhausting. Because, for example,

[00:07:25] I had a guy recently who had an unfavorable outcome with going after his kids. He wanted 50-50. The judge literally, the guy was Vietnamese. He was Vietnamese and it was, his family was recently moved over here from Vietnam. Anyway, he cooked Vietnamese traditional dishes for the children. The kids didn't like it. So judge did not give him 50-50 because of the way he cooked his dinner.

[00:07:53] That's the part that is just jaw-dropping and exhausting for me because in what legal universe can that be considered to limit your constitutional rights to your own children? Did the judge actually say? Yeah. He said those words. He said it on the record. 257th Court in Harris County. She said on the record, I don't think that the kids would be very happy at your house for that length of time. But the way you cook

[00:08:22] and your rituals and your traditions, I don't think would be best for them. That is what, and that's what I experienced too. It was so frustrating that things were used against me that had absolutely no bearing on my ability to be a father. It was either I work too much or I don't know. I spend too much time doing X, Y, and Z activity with the kids and for a judge to say, I think it's too much.

[00:08:52] And so then you get restricted to your own children. Texas just passed a constitutional amendment to their constitution that says that your parental rights are a constitutionally protected right. That's fascinating, except that then I can go to court and a judge can say, I don't know. I don't think your car is safe enough for the kids, so I'm going to restrict them. In what universe do you lose your constitutional protections simply because of a judge's opinion?

[00:09:21] That's the part that is exhausting. I go to Austin every two years and testify in front of the legislature there. We've had 50-50 proposed since, goodness gracious, I don't know, 15 years now. And it gets blown up every time. The committee members responsible for that decision are overwhelmingly family law attorneys. Taxes, taxes are also a secret behind a little bit of family court reform and why it's so hard to do is that the states

[00:09:51] and the United States, they receive what's called Title IV-D funding. Title IV-D is tied to Social Security Act. Every dollar ordered in child support brings in a reimbursement from the federal government. In the state of Texas, it is $11 for every dollar order. So, state of Texas is not really motivated to move to a 50-50 model when child support numbers

[00:10:20] would then fall through the floor because they just lost billions of dollars in funding. And most people don't know that. And then the sketchiest part of that whole deal is that there's actually a bonus, I'll call it like a bonus pool of money that is tied to the amount of money ordered by child support judges. They get a bonus for ordering child support. Nobody knows this.

[00:10:49] They keep this very, very quiet, but it's absolutely written in the legislature. Wow. Yes, it's a very corrupt, very broken, broken, broken industry. In Texas, our family laws haven't really changed since the mid-90s. Child support was originally designed only for moms that went on Medicaid or public benefits. And it was a way for the state to be reimbursed for what they were having to give up a poor single mother.

[00:11:18] Then they expanded into every case. So now, you got two people making $250,000 a year, but strangely, dad's kicking mom $4,000 a month? Why? Because they're getting the kickback. Because of the title 4D money. Man. Yeah. It's quite the racket, man. I tell everybody, I shocked some people. I was on a podcast a couple weeks ago and they were like, all their jaws hit the floor and they said, would you describe the family law system? And I said,

[00:11:48] the family law system in all 50 states, all 50 states is legalized child trafficking. That's exactly what it is. Your children have a system. A slew of professionals make money off of it until you get spit out the other end. And your children could be potentially broken and traumatized with the loss of a parent for no reason except for the state to make money. Make more money. Yeah. It's legalized child trafficking. Man. All right.

[00:12:17] I know. Heavy stuff. Sorry you got me going there. Why do you think so many dads lose before they ever walk in the courtroom? And how do we stop that? They expect to. They expect to lose. It is so ingrained into our society. We are the punchline of every joke, every sitcom on TV. It involves dad gets every other weekend and dad pays child support. Bingo bank. Oh, and he loses all of his money and he takes the house. And then we all laugh and think that's hysterical. And guys simply

[00:12:47] are resigned to that outcome before it even happens. And so when I get guys that are going through divorce or at the initial stages of it, I really enjoy it because I just beat that thought out of your head. Stop. What do you really want? I'd like to have equal time with my children. Thank you. And that's exactly what we're going to try to accomplish here rather than throwing your hands in the air and just saying, oh, give me the every other weekend deal and how much do I have to pay?

[00:13:16] And vice versa, it's beaten into women's brains too that it's some tremendous loss for them or an embarrassment that, no, I don't collect child support. We do a 50-50 deal. Oh, I'm so sorry. And those are societal issues that have to be broken. I think we're up to six states in the country that default to 50-50 just as a starting point. I think Colorado's one. Yeah. Yeah. Mississippi, Florida, Arizona,

[00:13:47] there's a few. But that has got to be passed across all 50 to where it's an expectation that unless someone can prove you are not fit that we will simply de facto move to an equal shared parenting thing. And yes, there's a million variables. If you work an overnight shift as dad, you're not going to be able to do 50-50. Okay, because that's just impossible. If you've got six DUIs, we're probably not going to do 50-50. But for the rest, the other 98% of us,

[00:14:17] there's no reason to not move to a 50-50 deal. And that's what they, that mindset of, oh, I already know how this was going to turn out. When I first started, I had an attorney for about 15 minutes and that was the first thing he told me. The outcome is going to be been that you're going to have every other weekend and you're going to pay 20% of your income, 25% of your income. I ended it with 50-50 and no child support after I fired him. But that was what they immediately told me. This is what's going to happen. That's what they told you. Yeah. Damn. And that's what

[00:14:47] men overwhelmingly hear. Wow. What are some of the warning signs 2022? I did a freedom of information request through the Texas Attorney General's office and I asked them I wanted statistics on placement of children as well as child support awards. And the telling statistic is that in 92%

[00:15:17] of all divorce cases across all 254 counties in the state of Texas, mom is primary and collects child support. 92%. So that's a predetermined outcome. That's not even bias. Got you. And so but warning signs it's that's a hard one to answer because the bias or the inability to follow law is something you really

[00:15:46] can't see until you put your toes in the water. Attorneys if you talk to attorneys they'll say oh Judge Billy he's really good but then you go in front of Judge Billy and Judge Billy just doesn't listen to you at all and just says I'm going to rubber stamp this with what I always do which is every other weekend and you're paying support. There's your bias but you don't know it until you're in the room. Once you get past that one of the biggest red flags I find is that there is substantial case law out there about a million

[00:16:16] different situations in family law and I'm a big fan telling judges about case law because it's supposed to drive their decision. Okay the higher court has ruled XYZ I need to follow the higher court. My favorite's when they say I don't care. Seriously? Yes. In my own personal case I'll never forget it I won't bore you with the details but there was a specific situation I knew it was going to come up I had the statue in my hand

[00:16:46] I read it to him and said you must follow this statue and he said eh I don't think the legislator meant me to follow it that precisely so I'm not and it won't okay man we jumped the rails brother when I'm reading you the law you are a judge that enforces the law and then you're saying I don't want to follow that one that's not how this is supposed to work so that was one moment

[00:17:15] when I knew oh boy I'm in for trouble this is going to be a journey it's also why he's playing golf today there you go so false allegations derail part of your case what should a father do in his first 48 hours after being falsely accused man false allegations are the worst I'm sure people have heard the silver bullet allegation that's actually what got me I have never been to jail I have no record I ran several successful businesses I had

[00:17:45] no issues in any capacity there was never a singular witness presented against me but my ex called me a drone that was it and that started four years of me trying to prove that I wasn't how do you prove you're not I would say for guys if you if divorce is on the horizon man you video you audio everything everything every minute of your day in that house that you know that divorce

[00:18:15] is probably looming you cover your butt because that's when it bites you is that then she pops up and goes he was screaming at me and put his hand through the wall I had a student one time he was still living with his wife of course and things were getting really sketchy she went into the bathroom took a bar of soap put it in a sock and beat her face walked outside called the police said he did it and off he went to jail it is

[00:18:45] very difficult but the only thing you can do is be as smart as you can do and CYA as hard as you can if it comes out anyway then you just got to recognize that you are now in the center ring of the circus here and now we're going to fight angrily against that allegation until it's gone that's another thing that bites guys a lot of times is that she's alleged okay he's

[00:19:16] testing to satisfy the court stuff like that and then guys will say I just want to settle man we're going to go to a final hearing I'm over this I got to get out and that's a huge mistake because you are trying to fight from a 5% vantage point when you should be as close to 50% as you can possibly be and that's a mistake I see every day where people are like I just so I did what happened this week this guy we were fighting he goes mediation and then just

[00:19:46] agrees to supervise possession for the next two years just because he was over it and it's like I mean we could have fought and I could have gotten you out of it at some point they would have had to lift the restrictions and once they lift the restrictions there's nothing to restrict you from but you get tired and you agree to things and now you gotta deal with the consequences of your own actions now your own choices what's one of the most powerful legal

[00:20:16] principles fathers should know about but usually don't that under the despite the statistics I've given you and despite the horrors that under the eyes of the law you're equal you simply need to remind yourself you're equal in the state of Texas the statute says that the judges must maximize time with the children and parents that's what it says maximize the next paragraph it says if

[00:20:46] you cannot come to an agreement on maximizing that time then the minimum is the standard possession order which is ordered 92% of the time that is in conflict with itself those are the things that where I say you can tick off your judge because they reason to do anything

[00:21:16] other than 50-50 and as you give me standard you've gone against the statute which instructs you to maximize the time and you've rubber stamped a minimum possession schedule so for guys it's just like getting it through their heads a lot that have rights you are equal the jokes you've heard all of your buddies that are on every other weekend and all that's all I get but the day you

[00:21:45] don't like that because you would like to spend equal time with your children it is up to you to get that through your skull that you can do this and you can advocate for yourself as aggressively as you need to get equality family law is the only arena I can possibly imagine where inequality is expected in every other avenue from business to anything it's of course we have to treat everybody equal we

[00:22:15] can't be sexist we can't do that no we gotta make new laws to make sure we're not sexist family law it's absolutely accepted and expected and guys take a big blame for this because they accept and that's unfortunate what does strategy formation look like in a custody battle and why do most fathers skip this step entirely yeah it's a good question it begins with

[00:22:45] first of all what do you want what do you what I ask people this every day on my consult calls it's like if I to get there I mean beyond that it's there's so many variables what is her issue with you she thinks I do x y and z and so she's going to bring that up okay and that's going to drive our

[00:23:15] strategy of making sure that we get in front of that can your life handle 50-50 a lot of guys it's hard because a lot of us work some nasty hours and have for 20 years to provide for our family it's hard to be 50-50 when you're working 8 to 8 that was true in my whole life the reason why I was self employed my whole life when I got 50-50 I was 26 years old our youngest was 6 months old and I dropped them off at daycare at 6 o'clock in the morning

[00:23:45] and I immediately said this is never going to since but that's a question for guys too are you willing to potentially change your job and your profession and potentially even your entire career if that's what you want because you are

[00:24:25] your whole day just blew up and you are going to tick off all of those patients that have been waiting to see you is that realistic and it's okay if it's not but we got to be realistic and so that's really in terms of strategy is like what is the realistic outcome or realistic end game here for you

[00:24:55] doesn't do this and he doesn't go to the school meetings and etc but that's normal that's a normal nuclear family for the most part guys tend to go and go to work and provide and mom generally speaking a lot of those domestic duties fall to

[00:25:26] I learned I went to school stuff took them to doctors sports things like that so I learned the one thing I did my co-parenting was high conflict matter fact the whole thing was high conflict and I the

[00:25:57] opposite and this is another argument I teach people to make it's like look I will acquiesce that me and my ex we are oil and water we cannot be in the same room I and as a

[00:26:26] 50-50 I have to have a fully functioning house I gotta have the same video games and the same clothes and the same toys and I gotta get them to the same extra but if you're doing every other weekend all that must be exchanged and time

[00:26:56] just generally speaking I would guess that probably 75% of the things that people do get bent over and get into big arguments could have been solved by ignoring just blow it off it doesn't matter let it go but I things

[00:27:27] were not good at home of course but it wasn't divorce level I didn't think and so I think I went into this begging pleading hey wait a minute let's not do this etc my second one I did know was coming I was the one that filed but I sat her down and said let's be reasonable let's try to keep this between us and do what we can if there's an opportunity for any guy to ever have that conversation I

[00:27:56] would encourage it to happen women get scared okay and it's not nothing but scares people and so I think guys if there's an opportunity to be

[00:28:27] the leader of your household and sit her down and say I understand own what you can and say look we are obviously broken at this point but I don't want to hurt you I don't want to scare you I don't want to fight with you we both love our children and let's try to stay focused there on the children of course in a perfect world they would both agree to not lawyer up there's no you can't stop her from getting an attorney but it gets it's tremendously

[00:28:56] more difficult if one of you lawyers up it just fact these people are very good at telling you what they need to tell you they're sales people in that conversation they're going to scare you and they're going to sell you on how they can fix your fear and unfortunately it's going to drain you all of the money you have yeah and Colorado is different they're starting to or back when I my divorce and even now they're starting to use more arbitration

[00:29:26] yeah and there's not much difference between a judge and arbitrator correct oh the arbitration if you're referring to binding arbitration yeah binding arbitration is very close to a judge because you're going to basically it's kind of a marriage between a mediator and a judge because they're going to try to talk to you and try to come to an agreement and try to wiggle through this but then if

[00:30:00] it's how that works in Colorado because district court judges only have the power to affect parent child relationships binding arbitration has to come by agreement at least in Texas and it's quite rare in Texas mediation is of course extremely common but arbitration does not so we do steps so we did mediation arbitration and then the judge signs off of well the judge is going to do whatever arbitrator says that's just a kind

[00:30:31] of elected judge is the only one with the power to affect the parent child relationship I get that there are where this happens in Texas again we can have binding arbitration but in Texas what happens is that if you go to mediation and let's say you do hammer out an agreement but then there's a disagreement with wording or language or details then you go back to the same mediator who then functions as a binding arbitrator and then of course

[00:31:01] the judge adopts whatever the arbitrator has ordered but I'd be a big fan of mediation before suits I'm a big fan of that arbitration would freak me out because I don't know this guy from Adam he's not even an elected official and he's an attorney which means that if I'm pro say and my ex has an attorney I bet you her attorney and this guy are buddies and that's a very common problem to deal with go pull the election

[00:31:31] donation records for your local judge and see the top donor and see what kind of rulings that guy gives and I mean let's do this good old fashion politics as corrupt as that is so my men have about a girls about being pro say as in their divorce your kids love you your kids love you and they

[00:32:01] need you and don't forget it because you're not just a paycheck you're not a weekend visitor your kids need your influence they need to grow up with you and they need you involved in everything that you can possibly be involved in and just because mom has been the one to go to your job is changing you are now need to be involved in that yes for your benefit but for your

[00:32:31] children taking a loving father who's with the children 100% of the time living in their home reading them books cooking breakfast for them taking them out in the front yard throwing the football and turning that person into a four night a month every other weekend visitor is not good for your children so if you got it in you do not accept it fight it like you're with everything you got because they need you and let me tell you something I'm

[00:33:01] 50 years old now so I'm out of the gang and my kids are grown you will never forgive yourself if you roll over and just say this is too much work is too busy I can't deal with this you will never forgive yourself don't do that to you or your children where can my people find you on the internet thank you prosay coach tx.com is my address I know

[00:33:31] it's got tx in the url I have worked with people I think I most malls across the country are pretty similar there are some of them like we're saying in Colorado where they've got some weird different caveats that Texas does not have but I still have worked with them and I learn a little bit of Colorado law that

[00:34:07] anybody out there and I I a guy too so I get you if you guys out there I get you and I love to walk through this with you all right Ben we appreciate you hanging out with us this Friday morning