Jack-in-the-Box Divorced Dad? How to Survive the Empty Week After Custody Swap 📦😔 Robert Gonnerman || Don’t Pick the Scab Podcast #160

[00:00:00] Welcome out there to DON'T PICK THE SCAB PODCAST. Today's episode is going to hit home for so many of you. My guest is Robert Gonnerman, psychiatric nurse, coach, and founder of the Align Man Project, where he helps men rebuild themselves physically, mentally, and spiritually after life knocks them down. Rod knows, Rod bottom. At just 32, he endured three hip surgeries, including a full replacement, lost both of his parents within 15 months, and transformed his health by losing over 140 pounds.

[00:00:29] He helped his then-wife through cancer while finishing nursing school and raising two boys. And when his marriage ended, he didn't justify the divorce, he rebuilt. And today, he co-parents his boys more than half the time. Now he's taken everything he's learned and turned it into a mission, helping men over 40 come back stronger. Rob, welcome to the show. I am honored to have you. Tell us a bit about yourself.

[00:00:52] Thanks for having me. Yes, my name is Rob Gonnerman, a psychiatric nurse. Like David said, I live here in Westchester County. I was a chef, actually a pastry chef for 16, 17 years of my life. Dang. And I got to experience that lifestyle from about 16, 17 years old until about 30, 31, 32, roughly, where I had some incidents.

[00:01:19] I guess God kind of moved me to a different direction, which I think is really my calling, is to help other people in any possible way I can. And I think everything's kind of led me up to this path where I am now, where I've been able to have enough experience where I feel comfortable with helping other men at this point in my life.

[00:01:43] And I'm a nurse. I'm a nurse. I'm a full-time nurse, psychiatric nurse. I worked in a transplant kidney unit for about two years. I went to nursing school late. I was about 34, 35 when I went back to school. And now I'm 43. And that took a couple of years to do because it was difficult to get through nursing school.

[00:02:05] And then I came out and went right into the liver, kidney area. But I had been in the field of psychiatric health care from 32 until the time I became a nurse around 39, 40. I worked as a mental health worker in a psychiatric hospital. I worked in a couple of drug and alcohol rehab centers. And I worked also at Putnam Hospital as a mental health worker during my nursing school.

[00:02:33] So I was exposed to a lot of different areas of help, of being able to give back. And the reason I think, I didn't, I got burned out as being a chef, of course. You do that grind that when you're working in the kitchens, it's really just what they say it is. If you really want to know, you reach Anthony Bourdain. Everybody knows him now.

[00:02:58] But I was told before he really blew up, I was told to read his book before I went to college, to cooking school. And I went to the Culinary Institute of America. They're like, read his book and see if you really, you want to live that life. And I was like, oh yeah, that sounds great. Cook, drugs, alcohol, and party, and just have that type of life. Rock and roll. And rock and roll. And I played guitar in band, so it was perfect. I didn't really know what I wanted to do in high school, but I loved to cook. I loved to grill.

[00:03:27] My father was big into cooking. Me and my father used to just watch cooking shows. We didn't watch football. We watched cooking shows before they were a big thing. Before the Food Network really blew up. And I went into the culinary side. I decided to do baking and pastry because at that time, there was more of a niche for it. It wasn't very popular at all. Nobody was doing it. Now pastry chefs are everywhere.

[00:03:52] At that time, they didn't make decorating cakes like a fad or like a big thing. Nobody was doing it. And I had a guy that taught me. He worked in a French bakery in the town next to me that I grew up in. And he said, if you deliver cakes, I'll teach you how to bake on the side. Because I didn't know how to bake. I knew how to cook. And he taught me how to bake. And then I decided I got accepted to go to school for cooking. And I switched the last minute to baking. And I got out and I worked in a famous bread bakery.

[00:04:22] Learned how to make bread. I worked in a couple different French restaurants in the city in northern Jersey. And then I ran a wholesale gluten-free bakery for six years. Before gluten-free blew up, gluten-free was just a thing. So I was able to develop some good recipes and became a production bakery and worked at... I taught out of college as an adjunct professor. Man, you've done a lot. You've done a lot.

[00:04:52] Yeah, I've done a lot. Yeah, sure. I've seen a lot. I've seen enough to the point where I'm like, okay. So you helped your ex-wife through cancer while finishing nursing school and raising two boys. How did that experience shape the man and father you are today? First of all, I have to say my ex-wife is... I thought I was strong until that woman went through cancer. She went through it like a champion. It almost... It was very impressive.

[00:05:19] But I remember when we found out, it was probably one of the most devastating things. I remember the phone call from the doctor in the kitchen. I remember us crying. And we had a trip planned to go to Florida. Yeah, it's tough. We got on the plane. I was wondering. I was like, this might be the last time we go away. It was hard. I remember it was right before my last year of nursing school. So it was like in between. I remember calling the professors. I was like, this is the situation. I'm going to try my best.

[00:05:48] I don't know if I'll be able to do it. Because our son was... Our son Eric was just born. And Austin was like a year and something. And change. So it made me more... I think it just... It built more patience. More strength. Mentally. Spiritually. And I think it made me a better father too. At the end of the day. I really do. It helped shape me to be a strong-minded individual.

[00:06:18] And to also go through something in a relationship. Like a trial. Just as she had helped me. Two. In younger years. In a lot of my podcasts, I talk about self-care. And how important self-care. But a lot of fathers out there concentrate on the kids more than they concentrate on themselves. They don't realize that when the plane's going down, you put your mask on first and put their mask on second. Speak to that for me. It's funny.

[00:06:47] I was just thinking that line the other day. I was just thinking that line the other day. Because I had an incident that happened to me two days ago in the airport. Where I almost had like a... I go to the gym four or five times a week. I try to eat healthy. And I had an episode where I didn't know what was going to happen. I almost had a seizure-like episode that I'm still getting checked up on. And at the end of the day, if I hadn't been doing what I've been doing... My two kids are in an airport.

[00:07:16] And my priority is to get them home. I'm in Florida. And I can't. So I had to take care of myself. Pull myself together. And able to... If I hadn't been doing what I had been doing, I don't think I would be able to get them on the plane and get them home. Gotcha. I strongly believe that. And I see a lot of dads, the biggest thing that they say is, I don't have time. I don't have time. I don't have time to go to the gym. I don't have time to eat. I don't... Okay, make time.

[00:07:45] You have to treat... A lot of people just focus on the physical side. And they're missing the mental side completely. And then they're missing the spirituality, in my opinion, also. If you're just... If you don't make time for yourself, your whole entire ship's in a crash. It really is. If you're a father, you're a father. And you are a direct example of what your kids see you. And they see you all. They see how you are physically, mentally, and spiritually. Do you lose your cool?

[00:08:13] Do you have anger problems? Do you have some type of relationship with whatever your higher power is? Do they see you being active? Or do they see you just flipping through TV, hitting your vape? And watching... Doing nothing. Or just drinking beer all day on the weekends. So if you're going to be a father, you got to step up. And take care of yourself. Before you take care... Priority... You're...

[00:08:40] You have to become selfish to become selfless. I believe that. There you go. Yes. That's what it is. And it's a double-edged sword. And you have to do that if you're trying to get sober. You have to do that if you're trying to get into shape. And you have to do that if you're trying to get mentally fit. Of course. It's almost like two steps forward, one step back. Correct. It really is. It's like a... It's a humbling experience. A lot of people don't even know what the real meaning of humility is.

[00:09:08] And if you don't, let me rest assured you, God will eventually right-size you. That's my opinion on it. Was there a specific moment when you realized that you had to rebuild yourself, not just recover? And what's the difference between rebuilding and recovering? That's a good question, too. I don't really like the word recovering. I'm not big on it. It's a very popular term in recovery for drug and alcohol addiction. We're recovering a day at a time.

[00:09:36] And it's not that I don't believe that. There has to come a point where you do recover from... Let's say for drugs and alcohol, right? They say it's a three-folded disease, physically, mentally, and spiritually. Especially that... If you're not... If you haven't drank for 10 years, are you recovered from it or are you recovering? There's a... There comes a point where you have to take your old ego itself and recover from that to become the new.

[00:10:06] So the rebuilding, I think, is losing that identity of who you were and rebuilding it to this new man or this new person that you want to be. That's how I look at it. Because you're rebuilding. Because you've already formed the basis in one way or another. Especially as I know men in their 30s and in their 40s. I can see it in my 40s now. I spent my 30s recovering. And I feel like I'm rebuilding myself as a man in my 40s. Gotcha.

[00:10:36] Let's talk about the Aligned Man Project and philosophy. What does it mean to be an Aligned Man? I think the way I look at it and what made me decide to do what I'm currently doing is like I'm not the best at anything. I'm not the best fitness coach. I'm not the best mental health advocate or even on spirituality.

[00:11:00] But with my experience, I've been able to get through a lot of hard shit. And I strongly believe from what I've seen and what I've went through that if you're not aligned physically, mentally, and spiritually, somewhere you will fall. You will break. Like 100%. So for me, the Aligned Man Project stands about working on yourself as a man. Physically, mentally, and spiritually.

[00:11:28] Because I feel, I know for myself, it was always one. Or two. It was never the three of it. I see a lot of guys, they train at the gym five to seven days a week. They're running every day. They get their bodies into optimal shape. And they want to kill themselves. They want to, they're depressed. It's not enough. You fix the outside appearance and then what's going on the inside. What's really, what are you really thinking?

[00:11:58] The types of posts that I post on like social media, on Aligned with Rob, on my personal Instagram, videos that I will be doing on Aligned Man Project. It's about their messages that, that the feedback I hear is, I thank you for saying that. Because I haven't, I've always thought that. I just never saw somebody write it down like that. It's how us men, how we think and hide things inside and yet we don't really work on it.

[00:12:26] So for me, Aligned is working on yourself on a daily basis, physically, mentally, and spiritually. And aligning yourself to what you want to become or build as a man. What that, that, that ideal image is for yourself. Because I tell you what, you lose a hundred pounds, you're still stuck with the same mindset to a degree that you had when you were a hundred pounds heavier. It's, what is it? What is that optimal male version that you want to become? I know it for myself.

[00:12:56] That's where I'm still working on. Which of the three pillars do men neglect most and why? The hard one, but I think it's easily, I think the mental. I think I wrote that to you, right? Through the email. I think it's the mental, but I think the obvious might be, you know, spiritual growth. It's spiritually growth is what I'm working with a guy. I'm not going to tell him how to pray. I'm not going to tell him what he should believe in. That's not my right.

[00:13:26] That's, I'm very against forced organized religion. If you have, if you believe in organized religion, I think it's great. I think it's awesome. Any type. I find them all fascinating. I really do. And I've read a lot of books on many, on all the different types of religions. And I've done some research on them all. But what I find, I've seen a lot of men broken in psychiatric hospitals. On paper, they look like they're put together.

[00:13:55] They really do. They're lawyers. They're doctors. They're nurses. They're, they're the guy coaching your son's little league on Sunday. It's just, they're not working on their mental health. And it comes to a point where you can put it on a back burner. Eventually it's going to come back and it's an overflow. And that's even, even a break in some type of rage, some type of bender, maybe an affair,

[00:14:22] maybe a drinking spree, maybe a gambling, whatever. It may be whatever those, those things we don't work on as a man. So I think it's really mental because I think it's, I think it's been conditioned in us men to really not talk so much about our feelings. I know my generation was. Suck it up. Yeah. Suck it up. Man up. And I, listen, I'll be the first, I'll tell my son. So you got to man up. There's certain times where you got to be tough. Yeah.

[00:14:51] And you got, you got to be an animal and you can't just, you can't just. I always tell my kids, I was like, this world will eat you alive. If you don't, if you don't, if you don't toughen up, it will walk all, it will crush you. And then it'll be like, daddy, what do you mean? Daddy, the world's going to actually eat me. Yeah. It will feel like it. It will feel like it. Let me tell you. There'll be a piece of your butt missing. Dang. God.

[00:15:16] The world's taking a chunk out of my ass and I'm allowed to blame for it too. On my side. So speaking of broken men. So for a man that feels completely broken after his divorce and he's recovering or rebuilding, where is the best place to start? Not with another girl. Tell you that much. Raise my hand too. Guilty. Does not end well. Does not end well. And it becomes a disaster and it will break you. Or I tell a guy now you got to stay single for a long time. Period of time.

[00:15:47] But hey. Mark out yourself. And heal. I had a good time though, but it wasn't the path to go. But I had a great time. I had a great time, but I shouldn't have done it. Yeah. I was deeply in love. I really wasn't. I got crushed. Crushed. Man. And so then think about this too, guys. If you're listening. You get out of the divorce and of course you want to chase. You don't look like a fool too. When you look back on it probably. Man.

[00:16:16] What was I thinking? Some of the awkwardness and whatever it is. It's like all of a sudden it's like freedom. And ladies do it too. So ladies are plenty guilty for it. They do the same thing men do. They're not any different. Trust me. Especially when you work with old ladies. There's very few male nurses out there. And they're no different. They're really not. They just think differently. They're made up. What kind of. So what kind of guy do? What's a good place to start? For me.

[00:16:46] I think it's some type of. Too good. There's. You got to find out who you are. First of all. Or who you are. Because you're no longer that person with that. That. That marriage. That's. So it's almost take a step back. You need to take a step back. And you need to actually. The best thing I think you do is really just. Take some time to yourself. And just sit alone. Because you're going to have to get comfortable. With being alone. And it's not going to feel comfortable. Yeah. It's going to break. It's going to break you. Eventually. It's going to feel very uncomfortable. It's going to feel foreign.

[00:17:16] And it's. Eventually. It's. It can become very depressing. I had no concept of being alone. I had no idea how to sit. And be alone. And I had to learn that. And I learned that. Over the course of a year. Of how to be alone. So you have to learn how to be alone. So. I think the first place to go is. Find some interesting books. Find a couple books. People that really. Inspire you.

[00:17:46] Or. That you want to learn about. Or a subject that you want to learn about. That start reading daily. Pick up. Like I just got. Andrew Huberman's protocol book. On supplementation. His different cycles. Of supplementation and stuff. Find that. Go back into some of the. Go back into some of your roots. Which got you to. To your marriage. Because I think we. We tend. To lose ourselves. In relationships. Of who we are. We become one. And that is a good thing.

[00:18:16] If you're both. In a relationship. Uniforming yourself as one. Okay. But get yourself. Together first. Take some alone time. Get a book. And then get some type of physical. You need to do some type of physical activity. Every day. Join a gym. I. If I could. If I saw a guy. As soon as he got. I actually did tell him. A couple weeks ago. I said go join a gym. Go to the Javis Street. And join a gym. And start. Start working on just. Some basic fundamentals. Reading.

[00:18:48] Structuring your eating. Like health. Learn about healthy nutrition. What type of foods. That work for you. Specifically. There's a lot of coaches out there too. Is they do like a one. Fit all. Recipe. Yeah. It doesn't work like that. I've lost a hundred pounds. Over three times in my life. Wow. Yeah. A lot of people could say that one time. I've done it three times in my life. I don't advertise that. But I've done it three times. And it's not easy. And it sucks.

[00:19:18] Medicines made it easier with GLPs. But there wasn't GLPs when I was doing it. Man. These GLPs. Every day I see a side effect. Yo. These GLPs are very. If you're not educated. The problem is they're writing. Don't get me on a tangent. They're writing GLPs. And they're not educating and training people. On how to use the GLPs. And following up on it. And that's where my second line of business. Which I'm eventually plan on opening this year. Called the preserved method. Which will specialize in that. Okay.

[00:19:47] So how does your background as a psychiatric nurse. Inform the way you coach men? Assess them. Assessing. Yeah. The first thing I'll have you do is an assessment. It's very much structured like a nursing assessment. Like a psychiatric nursing assessment. But it includes not. It includes psychiatric and physical. And spirituality too. So I want to see where you're at. Sorry if I'm congested. I want to see where you are physically.

[00:20:17] I want to see where you are mentally as a nurse. Maybe I can assess my dental patients. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure you do. I'm sure you do. Yeah. It's a quickie. Yeah. Yeah it is. It is. You know right off the rip. Yeah. As a doctor. I didn't floss today baby. You haven't floss for years. Yeah. I don't floss. You can't lie to me. Come on. But I'm very big on my children brushing their teeth. I'm very hardcore about it. Get them young baby. Get them young.

[00:20:46] Very hardcore about it because they don't get it. I'm like yo listen. Your teeth are important. And you get an infection in your root. In your gum. You spread slowly. You're in trouble. Talking about mental and emotional rebuilding. What are some of the most common mental health struggles in men over 40 after a divorce? The aloneness. The depression. Being alone. And feeling like you're out of your prime. Yeah. And not being able to control the situation. Yeah.

[00:21:16] That's a good one. Yeah. One of the things that my men... I talk a lot about that too. Yeah. They have a hard time not being able to control what happens at their ex's house. That sucks. That is huge for men. That is huge. Sucks. That sucks. And they're done that. That sucks. So why do you think that's so hard for men? Because we have a... We have a... It's ingrained on us to be like the leaders of the pack. A lot of females hate that word alpha male.

[00:21:44] If you are one, you have it ingrained on you where you are pretty much a control freak. And part of my program is kind of just breaking that down. It's saying you're not in control anymore. You're going to find something else that's in control. And it's going to flip you on the inside out. For me, I was a control animal. I really was. It took me a long time to just be like, okay. Yeah. Go do have fun.

[00:22:12] And not ask 30 questions behind it. In some ways, it's good. Like men... Like in some ways, it could play as a leader, as an organizer, as... It has its benefits. But you need to, again, align that into the proper way. Like how are you going to take what you've structured, the good, and utilize the good and leave the bad? Because you don't know what your kids are doing. And guess what? You're not talking to your ex-wife all the time anymore.

[00:22:43] You don't know what's going on. And then the thought of, you know what? There might be another guy there. Raising your kids too, eventually. And it's a lot to take in. A lot of guys, you don't think about it before they leave. And then they just blank their mind out with something else. And then it hits them. It gets... It can get ugly. And thank God, mine didn't get ugly. Yeah. What do you say to the... This is going to be a good question. What do you say to the jack-in-the-box dad?

[00:23:12] So he's got 50-50, kill parenting. He's on and on. He's got a couple of kids. They're in high school. Go week one. You change out Sunday. You... They all leave. And the dad goes back to the jack-in-the-box. Boom. And then a week later, he jumps out of the box. And he's run, run, run. What do you say to that guy? It's hard. It's hard. And I tell you what. When they leave, you're going to sit there in your kitchen. And you're going to be crushed for a second. I was there. Yep. I was there too.

[00:23:42] I am the dad that's over... I'm seven days on. And then I have him seven days off. And that emptiness that you feel when they are... It's hard. Sometimes you're like, oh, this sucks. And then you want to fill it with something else. Yep. Hopefully not a woman. Yeah. That will come. That or you got to learn to fill it. That's like what I trained men to do too is like, how do you fulfill that? Because for me, it was just filling it up with women. Yeah. For a period of time. That will become self-care. Because kids aren't around so you can work on yourself. Yeah.

[00:24:13] Yeah. There's a lot of things. You can become very busy. There was a period of time where I was like doing nothing. I was just doing... I was doing nothing. And it sucked. Like, I remember just like in the winter of just like, I'm not doing anything. I was just like, get out of your house. Go eat dinner by yourself. Yep. See what that's like. It's actually nice. Go see a movie by yourself. Go... Stuff. It's not easy. It's not.

[00:24:40] And even part two to that question, and this was happening to me. So all my kids were in high school. So I was busy. I had three. And we were busy week on, week off go. Yeah. After a year or two, I couldn't wait for those sons of bitches to leave. Yeah. I felt so guilty because I was a single parent. I was on and on. And so when it kind of... When that pendulum swings, I tell guys, don't feel guilty. That's normal. That's normal. I said it to my ex-wife last time.

[00:25:10] I said, I was like, April, I need a break. She started laughing. Yeah. Because I took them to Disney earlier in the week. So Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, we're in Disney. Wednesday, we come home. And then last night, they're like jumping around my bedroom at 930 at night. I'm like, guys, I have to take care of myself. Yeah. Like, you know. Yeah. Get out. Leave. Get out of here. Get out. I'm like, I got a two-bedroom apartment and you don't even go in your room. Why am I wasting this money in Westchester, New York? Yeah.

[00:25:39] That was one that really hit me. And I wasn't ready for it. But I had to laugh at myself because guys actually say that. There's a swing where it's okay. Okay, guys. Maybe the week is too long. You need to go. But yeah, it's very interesting. It's hard. But luckily, my kids, they call me when they're with their mom. Even on... My son will FaceTime me on his own. He's seven on his iPad. He'll be like, Dad, you want to play Roblox? I'll be like, yeah, dude. Let's play. It's very cool. And I coach their football team.

[00:26:09] So I don't have them this weekend. But Sunday, I'm coaching their football game in the morning. And then we have his birthday party. So it's... And they go to school right here. So whenever I do want to see him, I could just literally go up to the bus stop. My ex-wife isn't done it. We may... Me and my ex-wife always made a thing. We'll never not say you can't talk or be with the kids. We're very much... Co-parenting that works, man. That...

[00:26:38] Yeah, it's a work in progress. Man, that high-conflict co-parenting is rough. Let me just tell you. I feel very fortunate in a lot of ways. I really do. And it makes... And then you have to be careful, too, because if you get involved with another woman, it can make them very jealous. Yeah. Now, you know how to get through high-conflict co-parenting, right? You know how to do it? No, they educate me. No, they educate me. You love your kids more than you hate your ex. That's what got me through it, man.

[00:27:06] And it was crazy. And I'm talking crazy. But we got through it, and now they're 33, 32, 30, and it's all behind me. But man, it was a shit show. Yeah. But I got through it because I loved them more than I hated my ex. And I never talked shit about them, about her in front of them. That was one thing I did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you can't do that. Never. And that's a big... I can't stand it when I hear people doing that. That makes me sick. Yeah.

[00:27:35] I can't stand it, too, is like when they're... It's going to happen. You're going to be with somebody, and you're going to say something negative. But for the most part, that's like any normal human being behavior. But for the most part, you should not be ragged on your ex-wife, or you should not be. But there's been plenty of times where I'm sure on her end and on my end where we've said some things to whoever. But that could be just normal venting. But I'm not going to go out there and just bash her.

[00:28:03] If anything, I highly compliment my ex-wife more than I would ever. I'll always say she's a great mother, and she's a great person. There you go. All right, sir. My men have about a half hour attention span. Okay. I feel you on that one. What's the one thing you want to impart through this whole podcast? What do you want to tell them? This is one of the most important things you have to do, hear, or say, or realize.

[00:28:32] If you're going through a hard time, you will get through it. And no matter what, keep your head up. Put one foot in front of the other and do the best you can every day. And the results will come eventually. Don't give up on yourself because you're worth it. And even if you think it's never going to end, the suck, it will. And it will get better. Do the right thing, and the next right thing will happen.

[00:29:01] Do the wrong thing, and I can promise you the wrong thing will happen. You know the difference. It's that intuitive feeling that you have inside that everybody has. That they tend to ignore. And get help. Get a network of guys that can support you. That can pull your head out of your ass. Because I was fortunate enough to have that. Get out of there! Get out of there. If you need help, you can DM me. Because even if you don't want to do a program on AlignManProject.com,

[00:29:30] I'll be more than happy to give you 15 minutes of my free time. Speaking of that, where can they find you on the internet? You can go with AlignManProject.com. You can do a 15-minute free call to just see if I can help you. I'm not going to help you if I can't. I'm not. I have different types of monthly. I have a monthly program. I have an 8-week program. I have a 12-week program. And then I have a 16-week program that I've developed. And it's a lot more than just working on your body and losing weight.

[00:29:59] And you can find me on AlignWithRob on Instagram of about 10,000 followers. And AlignManProject on YouTube where I just started two weeks ago doing weekly videos. Okay. Yeah. All right, folks. I will have those links in the show notes. Thank you, sir. Man, I appreciate this. This was fun. This was fun. I appreciate it greatly. I wanted to get back into the podcast thing because I used to do it. I was a manager for a supplement company for five years.

[00:30:28] So I used to do three to four podcasts a week. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't done one in a long time. It felt good. I appreciate it. Thank you very much. Don't go anywhere. Don't talk after this. But everybody out there, have a good night, day, morning, and help each other. Take care. Bye-bye. God bless.