Rebuilding After Divorce & Business Failure with Joe Mikitish || DPTSP #149 || David M. Webb

[00:00:01] Welcome back to the show. Today I am thrilled to introduce a powerhouse guest, Joe Mikitish, a seasoned entrepreneur and mentor who has not only built but mastered the art of business growth and resilience. Experienced his own high-conflict divorce in 2012. Over his career, Joe has built 10 businesses to 7 figures, successfully exiting 6 of them, and also learning invaluable lessons from the 5 that didn't succeed.

[00:00:29] With decades of experience spanning trades, technology, business services and education, Joe is now passionately focused on empowering blue-collar businesses, owners through Blue Collar Connect, the mastermind in the community he co-founded with his wife in 2023. Joe brings a wealth of expertise in scaling businesses, achieving financial freedom and creating accountability-driven cultures.

[00:00:55] Whether it's moving from operator to owner or crafting effective marketing strategies for service-based industries, Joe's insights are game-changing for anyone looking to rebuild or grow their business. Let's dive in and learn from a true builder of success. Welcome to the show, Joe. Tell us a bit about yourself. We've got some questions for you. Joe Mikitish Yeah, thank you. Joe Mikitish Yeah, and just so you know, my wife wrote all that. Joe Mikitish Welcome to the true world.

[00:01:23] Joe Mikitish I'm not going to pretend like I wrote any of that stuff. Joe Mikitish There you go. Joe Mikitish It's all true, but yeah, she has a way with words that I do not. Joe Mikitish I'm great at presenting in front of people and breaking down business concepts and understanding where people are financially and helping them with money, but we all have our skills. Joe Mikitish And a little bit about myself. I lived in Boise, Idaho. I've lived here since 2003. I'm originally from a little tiny town in Montana. Joe Mikitish My dad was military, so we traveled all over, but as often as I could, I went home to Montana and spent time with family there.

[00:01:54] Joe Mikitish And really got to appreciate what it's like working with blue collar people. Joe Mikitish And then of course, like most blue collar kids, I was told to go to college, went to college and got an education there that I've never used. Joe Mikitish And I really wanted to be an entrepreneur from the beginning and I should have just started there, but I'm on the journey I'm on, right? Joe Mikitish We can't regret the things that we did, but I can tell you this. Joe Mikitish I started the entrepreneur thing in 1999, started a business with a buddy of mine in Houston, Texas.

[00:02:23] Joe Mikitish And then when I moved to Idaho in 2003, I sold that, sold the, I had two businesses running, sold those two businesses in Houston, moved to Idaho. Joe Mikitish And it was shortly after that, I started a tech company with my dad. Joe Mikitish And then since then, I've been on the journey. Joe Mikitish I won't go into every single business, but I've run a lot of businesses, many of them with business partners. Joe Mikitish I've been on the journey, some of them worked, some of them didn't. Joe Mikitish The failures were, the wins were huge and the failures were huge. Joe Mikitish I like to do everything big, man. Joe Mikitish I like to win big and a fair one. Joe Mikitish I fail big too. Joe Mikitish So I'm like, I can't do anything mediocre.

[00:02:52] Joe Mikitish I'm like, if I'm going to fail, I'm going to do it all. Joe Mikitish I'm going all the way, baby. Joe Mikitish And that's a summary of like my business life. Joe Mikitish I was married. Joe Mikitish I know this podcast is about recovery and that's a big part of what I do, even though I mostly coach people and help people around business concepts. Joe Mikitish I was talking about this, like health, relationships, money and business all have to be dialed in or it just doesn't work. Joe Mikitish You got to make sure that each one of those is in sync.

[00:03:17] Joe Mikitish And that's been one of the things I deal with a lot of business owners because stress in business, stress with money are often causes of divorce. Joe Mikitish And so I deal with that with people all the time. Joe Mikitish And then I work with them. Joe Mikitish A lot of our members, because we have, we work with 400 business owners now in Blue Color Connect between our markets. Joe Mikitish And my goal with them is to get their business right and their money right. Joe Mikitish So at least that's not the cause of a divorce if they have one. Joe Mikitish And if they have gone through a divorce, help them as much as I can to recover from that as quickly as they can so they can get back to business.

[00:03:46] Joe Mikitish So explain what a blue collar job is. Joe Mikitish So blue collar is like your trades, your skilled trades. Joe Mikitish So plumbers, electricians, roofers, HVAC, that kind of thing. Joe Mikitish And then construction. Joe Mikitish So you've got everything from remodel, custom home builders, you know, concrete, landscapers. Joe Mikitish You've got anything that anybody who works in or on homes, like from the, I would say from the road. Joe Mikitish And we even do the roads, actually. Joe Mikitish Roads all the way to the back gate. Joe Mikitish So on the residential side.

[00:04:15] Joe Mikitish And then you got commercial construction. Joe Mikitish So excavation all the way. Joe Mikitish We're moving the dirt. Joe Mikitish We're building the things on top of the dirt. Joe Mikitish And then building sky rises, hospitals, hotels, apartment complexes, houses, you name it. Joe Mikitish And then we're building them and maintaining them, our members. Joe Mikitish And then on the maintenance side, we've got, so that's on the construction and trades. Joe Mikitish And then you talk about like your maintenance side of things, which is your home services. Joe Mikitish So handyman, house cleaners, carpet cleaners, window cleaners, those kinds of things.

[00:04:43] Joe Mikitish So once the things are built, our folks actually maintain those things as well. Joe Mikitish We're in 88 different industries that are all blue color. Joe Mikitish One thing that makes our organization unique is we just, we're very narrowly focused only on blue color businesses. Joe Mikitish So we don't work with any white color folks. Joe Mikitish There's lots of organizations that help white color. Joe Mikitish Not too many that actually are very. Joe Mikitish Blue color. Joe Mikitish So let's talk about divorce and failure of business. Joe Mikitish What are some of the similarities?

[00:05:16] Joe Mikitish It's usually a relationship problem, right? Joe Mikitish You know, in fact, one of my mentors used to say this all the time, there's one ship that doesn't sail and that's a partnership. Joe Mikitish And it's interesting because a business partnership is much like a marriage, right? Joe Mikitish You get into it. Joe Mikitish There's a contract, you're sharing assets, you're doing all kinds of stuff. Joe Mikitish You're making decisions together. Joe Mikitish And eventually one person has a different idea than the other. Joe Mikitish And when those ideas change, it creates inherent conflict.

[00:05:44] Joe Mikitish And then conflict becomes bigger and bigger conflict and hurt feelings and poor communication. Joe Mikitish And then leads to more and eventually builds up to the point where there's no coming back from it. Joe Mikitish And there could be a betrayal there, right? Joe Mikitish So lack of loyalty happens a lot with business partnerships. Joe Mikitish Theft of money happens with business partnerships. Joe Mikitish Man, I've had it all happen to me. Joe Mikitish I've had all that happen in my prior marriage relationship and business relationships. Joe Mikitish I've had partnerships where there was lack of loyalty.

[00:06:11] Joe Mikitish I've had partnerships where I've had money stolen from me. Joe Mikitish And then they went and started a competing business. Joe Mikitish So it's almost like they cheated on me and went and got it with somebody else. Joe Mikitish And when got married. Joe Mikitish Wow. Joe Mikitish It's kind of interesting how I never really thought about it until you just said that, man. Joe Mikitish That there is a similarity between the way businesses break up and the way marriages break up.

[00:06:32] Joe Mikitish And the caring maintenance of the relationships in a marriage and the caring maintenance of relationships with your employees and your business partners and your referral partners and your customers is all, it's all the same. Joe Mikitish You can't just go on date night once and then not talk to her for six weeks. Joe Mikitish You got to maintain that stuff. Joe Mikitish And the other side of it is in business.

[00:06:56] Joe Mikitish You got to think about all the people, it's actually more complicated in business because you got relationships with way more people. Joe Mikitish I talk about this all the time. Joe Mikitish I beat this drum all the time. Joe Mikitish I'm like, you can't go service a customer. Joe Mikitish So a handyman goes and services a customer, comes over to your house, services you. Joe Mikitish Then you don't hear from him for a year until you need him again. Joe Mikitish What if he called you the day after and went, hey David, thank you so much for having us in your home. Joe Mikitish How is that new light fixture in your bathroom working out? Joe Mikitish Everything's still good. Joe Mikitish Maintaining the relationship is the most critical part that most business owners,

[00:07:27] and I think that I missed it in my first marriage. Joe Mikitish I certainly thought that love languages, we didn't understand each other at all. Joe Mikitish We got married super young. Joe Mikitish We were both 19 and I learned I failed big, man. Joe Mikitish I failed big. Joe Mikitish I failed in that relationship in a big way. Joe Mikitish Both of us failed each other and I take radical responsibility. Joe Mikitish It was equally my fault as it was hers. Joe Mikitish Not maintaining the relationship properly and understanding what it means to maintain relationships. Joe Mikitish I think I got it.

[00:07:54] Joe Mikitish I don't know if I have it 100% dialed in, but I got it more dialed than I used to. Joe Mikitish So at least my wife now sends me text messages saying that she's about how happy she is. Joe Mikitish There you go. Joe Mikitish You got to keep putting coal in the fire. Joe Mikitish So to keep that fire going. Joe Mikitish What lessons did you learn from the five businesses that didn't succeed and how did they shape your future successes? Joe Mikitish I think as far as businesses, who I brought into the business really shaped it. Joe Mikitish I'll give you a great example of this.

[00:08:24] Joe Mikitish I had a manufacturing business and we needed more equipment and I had put a sizable chunk of my net worth into the business. Joe Mikitish And then I brought on a couple of business partners already in. Joe Mikitish We brought in another one that had money and connections. Joe Mikitish And then, so there's four of us. Joe Mikitish And then we all had a sizable chunk. Joe Mikitish We all had basically 25% of the business at that point. Joe Mikitish Then we made it the biggest mistake ever, which is we brought in private equity.

[00:08:47] Joe Mikitish So private equity, we needed money to expand the business and I got, at the time, up until that point, and I'll tell you this, man, up until that point, almost everything I touched turned to gold. Joe Mikitish Almost everything I touched. Joe Mikitish With business and I thought that I could control the situation and I couldn't. Joe Mikitish And then they had bigger lawyers than us. Joe Mikitish Their contracts were better than ours. Joe Mikitish They were aggressive at doing a hostile takeover on us and they were very effective at us, at pushing us out of the business and sticking us with nothing.

[00:09:16] Joe Mikitish So I walked away from that business with one hundredth of what I put into it and the business was very successful. Joe Mikitish We grew it, what, like 10X every year that we had it. Joe Mikitish And then we sold it just on the open market. Joe Mikitish All of us would have walked away with millions of dollars and we didn't. Joe Mikitish We thought we could walk away with tens of millions instead of just millions. Joe Mikitish And we got a little greedy with it and sat down and thought more. Joe Mikitish In fact, there's a book called The Road Less Stupid, maybe one of the best business books ever. Joe Mikitish Wow.

[00:09:44] Joe Mikitish The author talks about you should spend most of your time as a business owner thinking rather than just running around doing. Joe Mikitish And that was my biggest mistake. Joe Mikitish I just, I acted out of impulse. Joe Mikitish I was running and going to want to make a lot more money. Joe Mikitish And I knew that if I had the money in my mind, I knew that if I had the money, I could grow the business as big as what we wanted. Joe Mikitish We could all win. Joe Mikitish And what I didn't realize is one of the players, which was the private equity company, didn't want the rest of us to win. Joe Mikitish They wanted all the winnings. Joe Mikitish And they got it too. Joe Mikitish They got it. Joe Mikitish They pushed us out.

[00:10:12] Joe Mikitish Then they sold the business to another company, another private equity company. Joe Mikitish And they did, they made the tens and tens of millions. Joe Mikitish That was a valuable lesson on being very careful who you bring into your house. Joe Mikitish Be very careful who you bring in. Joe Mikitish Just take just like a marriage. Joe Mikitish Just like a marriage. Joe Mikitish Be very careful. Joe Mikitish Yeah. Joe Mikitish Yeah.

[00:10:38] Joe Mikitish That's a great question, man. Joe Mikitish One of my mentors sat me down. Joe Mikitish It was about 13, 14 years ago. Joe Mikitish And he was like, bro, I'm tired of seeing you have this money thing where you're like, you got a bunch. Joe Mikitish It's like zero to hero to zero, like over and over again. Joe Mikitish That's a business owner. Joe Mikitish Hey, my money's got, my bank's got a bunch of money in it. Joe Mikitish And then the next week you're like, I have no money. Joe Mikitish And then the next week you're like, I got a bunch of money again. Joe Mikitish And we all go through those cycles as business owners.

[00:11:06] Joe Mikitish Up until you're at the point where you're doing about 25, 30 million a year in revenue up until that point, you're, you have a cashflow cycle. Joe Mikitish That's often out of whack, probably same as your business. Joe Mikitish There's, especially in blue collar, because we're very seasonal. Joe Mikitish So during the summer, we make money when the sun shines, when it's, when the, when it gets wintertime, especially up here in Idaho, probably in Colorado, it's thinking like you got a dead season and you've got to be able to manage that money appropriately so that you have it. Most people don't. And so what this mentor of mine sat me down, he was like, all right, here's the deal. I'm going to show you how to invest.

[00:11:36] Joe Mikitish He's like, you have a hundred bucks. And I was like, sure. I got a hundred dollars. And he was like, let's, let's open up a TD Ameritrade account. Of course, now it's Charles Schwab. And I'm going to show you how to invest a hundred dollars into dividend investing. And there's, he's the way people think about dividend investing is old school, like Coca-Cola X and on that. And all pay 2%. And he was like, there's other things that pay way more, man. And they're stable real estate investment trust, business development companies, that kind of thing. So he introduced me to that concept and I've been on a tear with it since.

[00:12:04] It took me a while to build out a strategy that worked for me. So about seven years ago, I really got into it hot and heavy where I was like, I had some extra money, started pouring it in there. And then about five years ago. So actually, I guess it was six years ago, right during COVID, I went all in on it. And it didn't take me long to get to the point where all my bills were paid for with passive income. So from that point, from 2020, it took me about a year and a half. So I'd already put a year and a half into it. Then I got a year and a half in.

[00:12:32] So I've been living on dividends since then. So what are we at now? About four, four and a half years now of living a hundred percent of my lifestyle on, on dividends. And so I, I, that's how I run my businesses too. So I put a brokerage account inside the business and I put all the profit and tax money and emergency fund into there. And the nice thing is that there's a brokerage accounts now that you can take a margin loan, which is a loan where you're using your shares of stock as your collateral, right? You can take a phone out and use the stock as collateral.

[00:13:02] And then you can use the dividends to pay down that debt. And in a business, I wanted to get away from ever having to need the banks. So I don't need banks. Whenever you need them, they're not there for you. And then they hound the crap out of you when you don't need them. They're like, Hey, do you want to do business credit card? I'm like, dude, I need that a year ago. And now you're offering it to me. And so, but when you need it, they're not there. And so I wanted to create a structure for me that worked. And then I wanted to be able to teach that concept to other people. So I'm not financial advisor. So I'm not allowed to go in and go, I advise that you buy this one share of something.

[00:13:31] But what I can do is teach people the overall arching. This is how I run my money. And to get around the regulations about being a financial advisor, number one, I don't take any money for it. Number two, I just created a YouTube channel and gave the whole dang thing away for free. And so I teach people how to, how I got free from the grind of paying all my bills for my active income and having to increase my active income to increase my lifestyle. Now I'm like, I need to increase my dividend income and to increase my lifestyle. So once my bills are paid, my lifestyle has gotten better and better.

[00:14:01] I don't know if you, you probably can't see me because I think that we were having camera problems, but I'm sitting in my backyard right now. And I'm actually drinking coffee, smoking a pretty fine cigar. And I've got a fire, an outdoor fireplace right behind me with a fire in it. And what's, what is it like 10, 1030 on a, on a Friday. Yep. Wow. How can someone use their, their skills to regain stability and purpose after a different

[00:14:28] life changes like a divorce or a company crashing? The big thing, it's a mind game, right? In fact, I was actually having a conversation with a guy right before we got on here. So it's kind of interesting. Same, almost same conversation where he's, I can't get my head in the game. He got divorced about six months ago and he's still dealing with the custody stuff. And man, I deal with this. I don't know if I'm a therapist or what I am, but like I was talking to him and I was like, Hey, the things is you do have amazing things in your life to be grateful for. You're just not focused on that. You're focused on the negative right now. How do you change that?

[00:14:58] I tell him, I'm like, you have to start every day with gratitude. So start a gratitude journal. That's actually what fixed it for me. I woke up every morning and wrote down 10 things I was grateful for. And my health is one of them. I'm 47 years old. I woke up today, this morning. I have zero pain. In fact, I feel great. I feel like a million bucks. It's more than that. I live a lot. My wife's out of training. She's out of town. My daughter texts me and she's, Hey dad, can you take me to lunch today? Because we'll have a lunch meeting. And I was like, yeah, she's 15. Whose 15 year old daughter wants to go to lunch with her dad at a business event.

[00:15:27] And there's all these things I'm grateful for. I wrote, I write down 10 things I'm grateful for. I meditate on those things before I start my life. Even now. Yep. Even now. Because a better way to start your day off than going, Hey, I actually have a pretty dang good. I don't, I don't think people talk about not comparing themselves to other people, but why not? Dude, there's people in this world who have a way worse than you and me. Oh, definitely. Within 10 miles of where I'm living, somebody's suffering with addiction.

[00:15:54] They're trapped in a terrible situation that they can't get out of. Their debt load is so heavy that they're considering drastic measures to get out of it. But you have all these people who live their lives in very difficult situations. And then I don't have those situations. And so I think about what I'm grateful for every single day. I'm in Idaho. Dude, there's not a cloud in the sky. You can't see it above me because the camera's not working. But there's not a single cloud in the sky. It's beautiful. The weather's insanely good. You know, if it got too hot this afternoon, I can go swim in the river and smoke a cigar

[00:16:24] in there if I want to do whatever I want, whenever I want. I can fly first class anywhere in the world. It's a beautiful thing to think about the things that you're grateful for. And by the way, when you focus on gratitude, the things you focus on, you can change. And the things you focus on, you get more of. So if you focus on negativity, you get more negativity. You focus on positivity, you get more positivity. It's just the way. It's the way God created it. Well, how do you speak to the guy?

[00:16:48] And maybe that's me or maybe not me that has all these fires, these hirings in the fire and doesn't pick one. There's so many shiny rocks. How do you stop that mindset? And that's a tough one. Here's actually, I actually created a gold journal for this. I actually have it published on Amazon. So I guess somebody could maybe type my name into Amazon. I didn't find it. But I created a gold journal and the gold journal works like this. What are my big goals for the year? Money, business, health, spirituality, relationships, that kind of thing. I've got those broken down.

[00:17:18] And then I have it broken down. Every day you write this down. So you go back every single day and you write your goals so that you stay focused. Again, focus. The more you focus on something, the more you can change it and the more good things you get from it. Then every month you write down what are your targets. So there's three things that you need to do in order to hit your big goals in each area. So let's just say health. In order to reach my health goals, I need to do these certain things.

[00:17:43] If I have money goals in order to get my money goals taken care of from the year, what do I need to do this month in order to hit? So near the end of June, I will write on my targets, my three targets for July. And then I break that down into a daily where I just do three daily tasks that are small. Health one's an easy one because I'm like, okay, in order to change my metabolism properly the way that I want, I need to go for a 10 to 15 minute walk every time I eat. So I'm going to eat a meal. I'm going to go for a 10 minute walk.

[00:18:11] So my task for today is three 10 minute walks. And so it's nothing that's going to take a bunch of time. It's no heavy lifting. But in the course of a year, if you do the math, if you do that seven days a week, heck, if you only want to, if business stuff, you only want to do it five days a week, you're talking seven, 800 tasks that you've got done targeting towards your goals. So it refocuses you in down to the, because if you look at the big goal and you're like, I want to make a million dollars, let's just say, but that's, that's an elephant, man. And by taking, even figuring out what they had to take bites out of it is really hard.

[00:18:40] And so people were like, how do you know if it one bite at a time that, where do you start? And the way that I do it is I break it down to the most minute, craziest little thing. What do I need to do today in order? So somebody who's investing wants to do investing and they want to get free on passive income. What do you need to do today? Okay. Well, maybe invest a hundred bucks. Do you have an extra a hundred dollars hanging around? Yeah. I'll get it with that. That's why my mentor got me started with a hundred dollars because most people have a hundred bucks that they could put into it.

[00:19:06] And now I invest several hundred dollars a day, but the great thing is I took it in bite-sized chunks and that's, and there's always a shiny object. There's always something new to do, but if you're on the goals, you don't get distracted so much. Okay. Wow. What about mentorship and community? How important is that in overcoming personal and professional obstacles? That's critical. Let's talk, let's talk professional. Being a business owner is lonely.

[00:19:35] You're you, you don't, you got your employees, you got your customers, you got your referral partners, but for the most part, you don't spend enough time with any of those people. And you don't build a purpose-built community around you. And that's a mistake. Some people try and deal with a networking group, like a BNI or some other thing, which probably, you know, there's a bunch of them in your town. But those networking groups, the people in there are nice to each other. They're pleasant with each other. They build relationships. But when somebody leaves, their community disappears. And the key is creating a community that is, is a lot more sticky.

[00:20:05] So I actually purpose-built this with Blue Collar Connect on purpose because I never had, I had at one time, I don't know, a landscaping business. And I built a network of blue collar people. We'd meet Fridays for lunch. And there was 26 of us. That group of people, in fact, I just saw one of them at a cigar lounge a couple weeks ago. He's done a cleaning business and he, and our conversation picked up. I haven't seen him in five, six years. Our conversation picked up like we'd never been apart, but we sat there nine years. And the, I purpose-built Blue Collar Connect so that we would have the community aspect of it.

[00:20:34] Because in business, the community is usually other people trying to sell you something. So if you go to a Chamber of Commerce event or BNI or whatever, the financial planner is in there trying to sell you something, the marketing guy. And finding, building yourself. If you're not one of my markets and you're not Blue Collar, then you got to build yourself a community of other business owners that there's nobody in there that can sell to you. In your case, you're a dentist. Go find a chiropractor, a massage therapist, a naturopath, and some of these other people in your same industry that you have no motivation to sell to each other.

[00:21:04] You just need that brotherhood and sisterhood. You go and get the pizza and the road. One week. Yeah. And the community is best built if you're at least sitting down and breaking bread with your brothers and sisters at least once a week. Whether that's breakfast or lunch or dinner or whatever. Someone who's achieved so much, how do you balance work, personal life, your relationship? And how does your brain not explode? Well, number one, I drink a ton of coffee. But the main thing is balancing relationships with business. I don't believe in work-life balance.

[00:21:33] I think that's some BS that corporate America tried to sell us at one point. The thing that I've created purposely came from one of my mentors. He was like, dude, build an integrated life. I'm like, what do you mean? He was like, involve your family and your business. They should all say we, our business. They should say we type language like it's ours. They feel like a sense of ownership, not just about the house and the household and our family unit, but they feel that way about the business. So I involve my kids. My wife's heavily involved in the business.

[00:22:03] So she runs the operations side of Blue Collar Connect. And so when, like my daughter, she's, hey, the lunch today is Friday, right? So we have a Friday lunch. We're going to have a bunch of Blue Collar Connect members at the lunch. She's texting me going, hey, can I go to the lunch with you today? Why would she want to go to a business meeting, right? And the reason is because she feels ownership of it. She feels pride in it. My sons are blue-collared. My 21-year-old, he does roofing. My 17-year-old, he does concrete.

[00:22:29] They're involved in Blue Collar Connect at a level that's even deeper because my son who does roofing is a member of Blue Collar Connect. So I've created the integrated life. And I think it's very important when we're sending letters to customers or cutting out stickers or any of that stuff, they're heavily involved in doing that. And we talk regularly about what our goals and dreams are with the business, with the kids. So they have an understanding of what we're all doing together. Why does dad have to fly out of town for three days? And the reason is we're all trying to reach our goals together.

[00:22:57] And there's things that we need to do it. Wow, Joe. This has been interesting. Very interesting. A little bit different than what I thought it'd be, but that was cool. So my man had about a 25, 30-minute attention span. So where can the man find you on the internet? Yeah, so you can, Joe Mikitish on Facebook, LinkedIn, and on YouTube. If you're interested in the investing stuff side of things that I do, YouTube is a great place to find me. And my last name is M-I-K-I-T-I-S-H.

[00:23:28] And YouTube's a great place. So I'm also doing some Facebook Live stuff. So anybody who owns a business, I don't charge for this. What I do, I'll do a Facebook Live. I'll get the whiteboard out. You got problems in your business. We'll write them up with a plan. I'll give you that for free. I'm just trying to help people out with me because a lot of us are driving around in our car going, if I can fix this one thing in my business, everything would be better. But they don't know how to get there. I can help with that. But if you just want to send me a message, LinkedIn's great for that. And Facebook's great too. I'm very active on both of those platforms.

[00:23:58] Yeah, I'm definitely going to connect with you. But thank you for your time, but don't go anywhere. Let me go ahead and close this out.