Healthy Masculinity, Mental Health and Co-Parenting in Divorce Recovery/ Michael Read || DPTSP #086 || David M. Webb

[00:00:00] Here we go. Welcome back to the Don't Pick The Scab Podcast, where we tap into awesome guests, superpowers and insights to help engage my men over 40 to heal. Welcome back to the show, Michael Read. He's a men's coach that helps men understand healthy masculinity through science, their psychology and history. We'll be discussing men's health, masculinity and mental health, along with societal and cultural trends. But we're going to specify, we're going to concentrate on cultural trends.

[00:00:31] Also healthy versus toxic masculinity in terms of helping my men over 40 heal from divorce. He has an adaptive male channel on YouTube and we'll go from there. So tell the people out there a little bit about yourself, Michael, and we'll go from there.

[00:01:02] Welcome to the Don't Pick The Scab Podcast with the premise of connecting men over 40 with the tools and community to thrive in their divorce recovery, either before, during or after a divorce. Check it out. Oh, I'm 35. I like long walks on the beach. Yeah, I got into this work in the past year or so after my last relationship, not married currently, but my last relationship fell apart after I realized there was, I look back at all my previous relationships and realized, oh, there's a pattern here.

[00:01:30] I keep dating the same person in different skin and that the outcome is almost always the same. And then I dove into it, looked into it. Turns out there's an entire field of research around this for his attachment theory, which then started to explain my life, explain a lot of my friend's life, a lot of my people that I work with, their lives. And then just got bigger and bigger. And especially with the men's issues nowadays, my experience with talking to people about the state of men's mental health and men's issues and whatnot is that it tends to be a very singular response.

[00:01:58] Oh, but you know what the one problem is? It's just because men don't open up. It's because men don't know how to have feelings. It's because men are just once if we just didn't have Trump in the way, if Biden wouldn't, it's always like this one thing they could point to. This explains everything. It's never one thing. It's a multitude of a million different things all converging into the world.

[00:02:16] Beautiful symphony of crap for a lot of guys. And my goal is to try to pull out as many pieces as possible, using as much science-backed evidence to suggest how we got here, where the issues really are coming from. And then how do we use that information to then reverse it to help people, especially men, start to deal with their problems, live better lives, embrace healthier masculinity, understand what healthy masculinity looks like from a more science-backed perspective. So less spiritual, more scientific.

[00:02:46] And then helping to see how that can compound and grow from there once we have the word out. Before we get into the co-parenting phase, I was thinking as you were talking, I am a second generation divorce person. And there's quite a few out there that are a child of divorce and they're divorced also. That messes with your psyche. Second generation meaning your parents' divorce? Yeah, my parents' divorce. Yeah. You, it's almost something you can't get over.

[00:03:12] And quite a bit, quite a few of my friends are second generation divorced. So how do you think that relates to your masculinity and trying to overcome that? Less about masculinity, more about self-awareness, I think. There are statistics, one, two, the idea that if your parents are divorced, the likelihood of you getting divorced later on is much higher.

[00:03:34] And a big part of that is the idea that your childhood mental framework, like it's almost like programming an algorithm or some kind of supercomputer. Like the way, like we were talking about AI before we jumped on. And the way AI works is you tend to just dump a ton of information into it and it starts to draw connections based on what you give it. And especially like kids growing up, you're basically little like supercomputers that are just getting information fed into you without even realizing it.

[00:03:59] So if you see animosity between your parents growing up, there's just becomes this narrative internally of, oh, this is normal. This is how it's supposed to be. So then when a lot of times when men and women grow up and they get into relationships, they start repeating these patterns without even realizing it. And the self-awareness part really is getting to the point of recognizing like, oh, am I doing what my parents did? Am I repeating a pattern right now? Is there something going on here? Because it would be very difficult to recognize when you're actually in, well, say like a maladaptive behavior.

[00:04:29] Emotions naturally have an override mechanism on your logical thinking. If you get emotional enough, you'll start doing some crazy shit that once you calm down, you realize, oh my God, what was I thinking? What was I doing? Holy crap. That seemed so rational and logical at the time. But now looking back, I realize like what happened. And some of the best ways we can have people to try to keep that in check is for at least for even for people who are either currently married, want to stay married, or guys who are trying to work on themselves is that you have to start using other people as a reflection of where you're at.

[00:04:58] Having close friends that you trust that if they say something to you, hey, man, Dave, you're really acting like an asshole. What's up? I'm not like an asshole. I'm just, I'm just, I don't know. I just like, I've had a bad day. And you calm down. You're like, oh, wow. I really was acting like an asshole. I wasn't like, what's happening? And you don't realize it in the time. But if you have people around you that you could trust enough to say, tell me the truth, even though it's going to hurt, even though I'm not going to want to hear it. It's reflecting that bad, but you could really trust them to say that.

[00:05:22] And another one, especially for people who are married or even any kind of long-term relationships is setting down rules of engagement early on. Because it's very easy to fall back into old patterns rather than recognize what's happening. Some of those patterns might be like, when we get into fights, we revert to name-calling, character assassination, attacking each other, like the blame game. And then we get emotionally heated.

[00:05:49] We start poking each other's insecurities, and it just starts to spiral out of control because you feel like you're under attack. And so do they. And you're just trying to protect yourself. That's really all it is. It's not that this person you're with is an evil person. It's that they feel threatened because you feel threatened and vice versa. And you're basically just going into a self-defense mode that your brain is interpreting as like you're under attack. So setting down rules before a fight ever happens, before you even get married. This is why premarital counseling is a thing. It's to say, okay, we're going to agree. No matter how bad it gets, no name-calling.

[00:06:20] No personality or character attacks. All I statements own what we're feeling. You did this to me. No, I'm feeling like this right now. This is what I'm just communicating. This is what I'm feeling. Whether or not it's true or not, we'll talk it out. And if it really gets too bad, maybe what we refer to as like cause for a pause. Basically saying, if you get to a point where you say, my heart's racing out of my chest. My face feels hot because blood's pumping. And I just feel like I want to put my fist through a wall. We're going to stop talking.

[00:06:49] We're going to go for a walk, separate for half an hour, maybe a day or two. If you really need to. And then come back when we're in a more grounded state to just see what happened and try to have this conversation again. Yeah. So we were talking about co-parenting earlier. And there's a couple of things that my men struggle with. We talked about before being a single co-parent because you don't have that communication piece with your ex or soon to be ex.

[00:07:14] How about a guy conquer that or keep that within his sights, not to lose his mind trying to co-parent by himself? When you say co-parent by yourself, do you mean? Like you don't have help. There's so many men and other people around. We on, you're off. And we talked about before that jack-in-the-box parent. On, on, off. Boom.

[00:07:39] It's a bit, yeah, it's a bit of a whiplash in a way to do that. If you're doing like 50-50, three days out of the week, four days out of the week. And also you're going from like dad mode to solo mode to dad mode to solo mode. It's a big shift back and forth. And I would encourage any guys out there who are going through that, don't do it alone. Find other men you can connect with. Maybe other men who are also co-parenting, but just people in the community that you can connect with, your neighbors, your friends, other family members who are helping you through.

[00:08:08] A lot of online groups out there. We're really not designed as the creatures that we are to single-handedly be able to handle that much stress on our own. Really, we're very communal, relational creatures. We need other people to function properly. So there is a tendency for men in particular, notorious for this, of a lone wolf. Like I can handle it. I can do it all myself. And if I can't, that means there's something wrong with me. So I have to figure it out.

[00:08:34] But you're just taking on an uncharacteristically large amount of stress that you were never designed to handle. And it's not a sign of weakness to say to somebody else, yeah, I could use a break or I could use some more help. Or I'm not sure what to do. Let me go talk to somebody. Or I just need someone to listen to me talk and vent. I had a long day, a long week, whatever it is. And just having a core group of maybe two or three guys that you know you could just call or text. And they'll let you talk. They'll let you vent. They'll give you some feedback. Yeah, not doing it alone is a big one.

[00:09:02] And the other thing that my men have a hard time with is, I think we talked about before, is not being able to control what happens at the ex's house. Letting that go is huge for some guys. And that just drives them crazy also. So speak to that for me. I think understanding what's really happening, at least for me, helps a bit more. No matter what, it does hurt to hear that there's some subtle manipulation maybe going on through the kids to you.

[00:09:27] Maybe your ex-wife is trying to attack you through your kids by creating certain narratives and frameworks. But understanding that it's not, in my experience, unless she, even if she has something like borderline personality disorder, something crazy, or she's a full-blown textbook narcissist, whatever it may be. More often than not, that's all just expressions of undigested traumas and frustrations and emotions.

[00:09:52] Odds are, if you got divorced in the first place, there was just something under the surface for both of you that was pushed down when you found each other. And then when you were together for long enough, it eventually came to the surface and blew things up. And whatever that is, it's probably still simmering in the back of her head, as it might be in your head. Keeping a mental framework of understanding if she's doing this, it's not always because she's an evil, wicked witch crone who's trying to ruin your life. It's more like she's just screaming in pain and doesn't know how to actually communicate that.

[00:10:21] It doesn't make it okay. It doesn't make it right. But understanding it a little bit better that more often than not, and guys might do this too, but understanding that they're doing it as an expression of hurt, pain, aggression, whatever it may be. And it's very characteristic that women will try to... Women's aggression tends to be more social. Men, we get mad at each other, fists fly, faces get punched, things break.

[00:10:46] Women get mad, gossip, rumors, innuendo, social sabotage, things behind the scenes. And working through the kids tends to be one of those things. And understanding what she's doing and how she's doing it can be at least soften the blow a little bit. And then creating a framework where the kids can see the difference between the two of you. She's like, Mom said you did this and this. And she's like, what do you think? Based on what do you think that's the person I really am?

[00:11:13] And it's less about trying to attack her and more about trying to assert that this is a character you had as the person you want to be. And you're demonstrating that through your actions to your kids, no matter what she says, so that they can start to get a better sense of, oh, dad's actually... Like he said this, then he did it. Or like she said he did this, but then he did this. Which one do I want to really go for? Less about trying to attack her and more about holding your own identity in place in front of your kids and saying, this is who I am. This is how I act. Do you see any mismatch? Do you feel this way?

[00:11:42] And then understanding that she just might be doing it again out of its undigested pains, undigested frustration. The odds are you came into the relationship together high as a kite off happy hormones and optimism. And then things just blew up and you wonder what the hell happened. It's like her undigested traumas from the past and yours just butted heads together. And it's very difficult when you're in those emotionally heightened states, especially if you're repeating things from childhood, like we said a second ago, to realize that you're doing it. And it just keeps carrying over until somebody externally can help you see it.

[00:12:11] Or you can have the courage to step into it, usually through the help of other people, especially other men. Yeah, you just talked about doing that external piece. Us men, we have a hard time going to accepting therapy. How important, because I know it's important, just tell the men out there how important external therapy can be. What kind of therapy do you refer to?

[00:12:32] Oh, at this point, counseling, therapy, just being able to talk to somebody, maybe a pastor or a friend or even professional therapy. Therapy gets a bad rap nowadays, but to a point, for men in particular, it's a little bit justified.

[00:12:51] And I wouldn't discourage people from seeking professional help, but understand that a lot of times, if therapy is not working for men, it's usually because it doesn't function with how it doesn't mix well with how we operate as men. A lot of traditional therapy, like traditional therapy, as we know it, was really modeled off of basically way back in the day, Sigmund Freud, I think he was one of the fathers of psychotherapy. He basically said, who wants to talk about your problems and has money?

[00:13:20] And a lot of affluent, aristocratic white women raised their hands and said, I fucking love talking and I have my husband has money, so let's go do this. And so most of the framework built around, oh, it turns out if we feel just people just vent and talk and do things, then it makes them feel better. And therapy works pretty damn well for women who usually have more of a, like, if someone just hears me, it's why you see women love, not to knock it, it's just an observation. Women love talking, they'll take their new brunch. Like a lot of guys are just like, guys are together. What can we do together? What's a goal we can accomplish?

[00:13:49] Let's go play golf or play a sport or build a thing or do something recreational together. Women tends to be more like, let's sit around and just do something where we're chatting and engaging socially. You ever see this? You see this a lot of times, like you go to a sports bar, all the guys are just facing the same way at a TV. Whereas if you see like over the corner, brunch comes a bunch of girls are all in a circle facing each other. And it's like the TV or the game or whatever they're focusing on, that's their bonding moment. Women talking is just how they relieve their stress.

[00:14:16] For men in particular, it's more about when the guy, the person that you're working with, it's helpful that person understands, like they have to build trust to have to build rapport. Or men have a feeling of, a lot of men have a feeling of, I don't know if you can handle what's going on inside. I need to know, I don't know that you have no idea how much I'm going to attack them. Their inner critic tends to be vicious. And it's just years of frustration, resentment, childhood issues and things like that. It tends to be like that part.

[00:14:45] You think if they're mean to you, I guarantee that three times more mean to themselves inside here. And sometimes it can be a fear of, can you handle what I really have to say? What I have to feel like it's going to be intense. It's going to be volatile. I might be really fucking angry. I'd be screaming, yelling, crying until I pass out, whatever it may be. Building rapport, building trust and helping guys to try to interrupt their logic patterns because guys are notoriously good.

[00:15:13] Here's a good, an unfortunate statistic. I think 75%, 70% plus globally of suicides are men currently. And the stats have only gotten worse in the last couple of decades. But a good portion of those men who took their own lives demonstrated no visible signs of mental illness whatsoever, which means they're really good at hiding it. You have to have a good capacity to work with somebody that can really, in a loving way, spot your bullshit.

[00:15:41] Because guys are really good at hiding what they're really feeling. And part of it is spotting the bullshit in a loving way and just giving them the space to then trust that, oh, he actually sees what I'm really feeling. He sees I'm trying to hide something right now. But he's also given me the space to say, can I talk about this? Can I express this? Can I feel this? And a lot of guys also with traditional therapy, they've been so emotionally disconnected from themselves. The parts of the brain that are associated with emotion, with feeling, and things like that.

[00:16:11] You go so many years without really letting yourself feel your feelings, quite literally feel your feelings. You just, you start to inadvertently numb out and you lose the ability to feel the signals that your body is sending to you. And so helping guys to walk through, what does my anger feel like? What does my sadness feel like? What does my grief feel like? What does my resentment feel like? My loneliness, what does it feel like? And reconnecting with yourself to know that when you're feeling it, you can then acknowledge your feeling it.

[00:16:41] Express it to somebody else. Letting out old shame. Letting out old grief and frustration. Because a lot of these feelings, you can't do it in isolation. Your brain won't let you heal or let go of those feelings until you reflect it off somebody else. So if you have an inner voice saying, I suck, and then you meet somebody and say, oh, you're pretty cool. Wait, what? Snap out of it. You're cool. I suck. Now I have to compare which one I want to listen to. And it's the first time you really get an ability to say, oh, there might be an alternative opinion of how,

[00:17:09] a vision of how I can talk to myself and start to correct this inner voice. But you cannot do it in isolation. You have to do it with somebody that can guide you through how to work on your feelings, giving you space to let yourself open up, be seen for what you're feeling, getting it off your chest. And somebody's not afraid to A, call you on your bullshit in a loving way, and B, teach you how to reconnect emotionally, and then translating that to the rest of your life. I love when you say that not all therapy is good for you because I have a therapy story.

[00:17:40] So we were still married, and we were working through some things. And one of our couple friends said, hey, why don't you go see this lady? So we went and saw her. And man, every time we went, she was on me. I couldn't do anything. And we saw her before. Therapist or therapist? Yeah, therapist. And I saw this guy at a YMCA game. Our kids were playing basketball or something. I said, Chuck, what is up with this therapist, man? He goes, dude, she's a man hater. I said, why did you refer us to her?

[00:18:09] She goes, it wasn't me. It was my wife. So yeah, you have to be careful out there who you go to and who you choose. But therapy can be good, and it can be bad. You have to really pay attention and look out for the red flags. Couples therapy is very tough because it tends to be... I'm trying not to go down like the woman-hating rabbit hole right now.

[00:18:35] But I've heard more than my fair share of stories of what they tell couples, therapists, and training is to start with a man. Because if you start with a woman, they're probably not going to come back. Yeah. And it's not... It sounds like... What it sounds like is, oh, she just can't handle the truth. She can't handle cannabis. And it's really more a function of her defenses are probably way higher and stronger and more subconscious than yours are. And it just takes time to let her calm down enough to let herself feel what she's feeling.

[00:19:04] Because if she's being vicious, vitriolic, and hateful towards you, that's more an extension of there's something inside that's just eating her alive. But she only knows how to just attack the thing outside that she thinks is the source of the problem. Like in the case of relationships, when we tell people, it's like there's you, there's the other person, and then there's the relationship. There's three different things going on. And a lot of times with couples that are having difficulties, you have to remind yourself you're tackling the problem to save the relationship, not attacking each other.

[00:19:32] And having somebody that can essentially create that space to then decompress and say, All right, you're a man attacking him. Is it really him that's the problem? Or is it something you noticed that was done as reminding you of something from your past or whatever it may be? But yeah, I've heard a lot of stories about couples therapy being crap where it's just like, they just attack the crap out of me and it must be the man's fault. And that's a whole generation of young therapists who have been trained in that. A lot of anti-male goddamn patriarchy kind of rhetoric is going around, especially in certain areas of the therapy circles.

[00:20:03] And this is why I think this is a big part of the reason why coaching is starting to pop up so prominently for a lot of people because it's a, it's an avenue where they can do things that traditional therapy tend to avoid, which tends to be along the lines of really not being afraid to step in and get in with somebody. Get them to really not be afraid to confront a feeling that they're feeling. And if I got another thought, I just lost it.

[00:20:26] But yeah, being a little bit more direct, a little bit more, I'd say confrontational, but getting in there and trying to help the person really reconnect with things. Yeah. Yeah. So when my, so when my men are co-parenting and the one thing I did was trying to be the best father I could be. And there were so many things that were like in the way, trying to get like a schedule, this, that, and the other, trying to show up for, for basketball games, soccer games or whatever.

[00:20:55] And I tell them that there's no handbook. There's no rules. You're going to fail. And, and sometimes you will fail miserably. So speak to those guys out there, just give them some hope. Men's groups. I think knowing you're not alone, knowing that this is a much bigger pervasive problem of preference towards women and mothers that kind of happened the last 70, 80 years, like post.

[00:21:25] I think the divorce, I think divorce, no fault divorce was normalized and legalized in like the 1940s. And if you look at a chart of the rates of divorce, like two years after that was like really much made easier, then it skyrocketed. It was ridiculous. It was how many divorces happened. But it's less to do with because people, women are evil, men are evil.

[00:21:49] It's a much bigger framework behind we've really lost what it means to, what it means to be in a healthy relationship and what it means to actually let yourself grow in a relationship. Because a lot of people have modeled, men and women have been modeled from parents that came like post-World War II generation, post-globalization. A lot of guys and a lot of people out there were just very much like isolated in their own house. Like the American dream, buy a house and then sit by yourself and load in your kitchen all day or whatever it may be.

[00:22:15] And then it's multiple generations of compounding, lack of knowledge and understanding information. In the case of co-parenting and just like that kind of, the best thing you can really do is have other guys, if you're especially a man, that you can just vent to, talk to them if they're going through the same thing. It's like having somebody just hear you out and see you that, oh, it's not just me. It's very common. A lot of people have this, a lot of guys in particular have this feeling of, I'm the only one going through this. It feels like I'm the only one going through this.

[00:22:43] And then when you jump into, you mentioned the last podcast, like divorce support groups, you're like, oh my God, it's not just me. Holy crap, it's not just me. There's so many other guys going on here, going on out here. And using that as your support system rather than trying to force your ex-wife to be something that she just can't be right now. In a way, that she's going to do what she's going to do and maybe, and figuring that a lot of her behavior is just,

[00:23:09] there's a part of her that has some undigested trauma from a past event that is so, the sound on that is so loud. It's overshadowing everything else she should be looking at. Like her distaste and frustration towards you is bigger currently than her love for her kids. Yep. And when you're in that kind of trauma thinking, that kind of mindset where you just feel like you're under attack all the time, you haven't actually properly digested it, it's going to come out as vitriolic, toxic, mean shit.

[00:23:38] And the best thing I think for guys can do until divorce laws change, and I'm hoping they do, in the next not too long, and more discussions happen, because there is a lot of statistics and data coming out pointing to how kids tend to do better on average when there's majority father parenting when divorces happen. Especially boys in particular. I think this is a good book you can recommend called Of Boys and Men, but they talk a lot about how boys in particular really need a strong male father-like figure

[00:24:07] in their years growing up, or else they just tend to fall off the track later on in life. But yeah, it's messed up. I wish I had a better solution to the current situation. It is getting more traction and more media visibility here and there, mostly through things like podcasts and online coaching groups. But it is the best thing for now that you can do is just find other male support. Find other guys that are going through it that can help you through it, whatever that may look like. It is messed up, but it's doable. And you can just drive through it.

[00:24:37] But yeah. Let's move on to a subject that we've never talked about, dating. Yeah, that's going to be interesting. It's a shit show. Yeah. I dated way too fast. I think I was trying to heal through dating, and it didn't work very well. And then I figured out that I had to work on myself, so I stopped. But dating was very interesting. I think guys date too fast. Girls too. Even after a long-term relationship, because I don't think you're ready.

[00:25:07] So speak to that for me. There's a good quote from a prominent therapist named Dewey Freeman. It says, We are wounded in relationship, and we're healed in relationship. And you really do need relationships as the best way to heal any of your psychological problems and wounds, because you have to give your body, your mind, your subconscious room to somebody else that you know cares about you, trusts you, loves you, is willing to give you the space to feel what you need to feel.

[00:25:34] But I think there's a bit of a rebound effect that guys and girls will go into. Yeah. They'll just run into something very quickly because they're just looking for a sense of comfort. And maybe the comfort is, this is familiar. How's it familiar? Because this is what I had before. And I missed that, so maybe I could jump into it again. The relationship could look like dating somebody else, but being very transparent about the fact that you're sorting through some old stuff in your head. And the healthier relationships might be working with a therapist, a coach.

[00:26:01] But in particular for men, I specifically would say, find other guys you can spend time with, like bro time. Get involved in hobbies, activities, whatever you enjoy doing. If you're into sports, if you're into some kind of watching sports, you enjoy some kind of golfing, tennis, pickleball, basketball. If you have a hobby, you like to work on cars, you're into collectible cards, you're into construction or woodwork, whatever it may be. Something where you'll be around other guys and just male bonding is a huge way.

[00:26:27] And then ideally having those friends that you can then connect with, let your thoughts out, let your frustrations out. Having those guys in your life that you can call at 3 o'clock in the morning because you just woke up and started hysterical crying. You need someone to listen to over whatever happened. And dating too quick, dating too quickly can be a thing, but also don't run away from dating entirely because it can be a very powerful source of healing. As long as you really can be open and transparent with the person you're with of what you're going through. And they're willing to work with you in that capacity.

[00:26:57] Yeah. Tell them that you're a wounded bird and don't, don't worry about what I'm saying right now because I'm crazy. Yeah. Yeah. We've had plenty, I've had plenty of guys I've spoken to and I've seen that. Okay. I'll put myself on the spot right now. I have a, I have a history of dating girls with, without fathers and it wasn't even intentional. It was something just subconscious radar that would go off that I'd meet a girl and maybe she'd be, I'd meet plenty of women and some of them would be attractive physically, but it wasn't really much of the spark wasn't there.

[00:27:26] And then once in a while I'd meet a girl, I'm like, I don't know what it is. I'm like, I'm thinking about her. Just, I just like her. And then like after talking for a little while, oh, by the way, my parents are divorced. My father's an a-hole and he abandoned us. Oh, there it is again. Okay. There it is. God damn it. I don't know how old it is. And then I actually met women. Oh, when I was younger, I'd meet women. Like I actually came from healthy families. Their fathers were still around. They were good guys. And I'd be the one going, I don't know what it is. I'm just not feeling it. I don't know. And yeah, it's recognizing that, I'm sorry. What was the question that we started with? I don't know.

[00:27:55] I'm going on a tangent here. There's a reason I brought this up and I forgot what it was. God, I don't remember. Because I was into it, man. I was listening. We were talking about dating and healing through dating. That's yeah. Okay. Yes. After doing all the, like the men's work, I've been through coaching myself. I've been through like letting my own emotions out, shame release, other things like that. For me in particular, I know that if I want to get married, have kids, hurt a family, things like that.

[00:28:20] I either have to meet somebody who either currently has a healthy family or has done their own work after being in a difficult, dysregulated family. Because the energy they bring to the relationship will be very different from somebody who has like a history of traumatic incidents or whatever, or undigested emotions. A lot of times, like people become like serial daters because they keep dating the same person because they're trying to fix a problem. They don't realize it is still going on in their head.

[00:28:47] And so in my case, I know for a fact, the next girl, I'm currently single, but the next girl that I meet, I feel like if you go, oh yeah, I have a healthy family. My father's this and this. I know I'm going to be the one freaking out. Yeah. But to openly communicate, listen. It's not going to work. Oh my God. Get away from me. Could be. Yeah. But it's, but to basically openly communicate, like it might take me like a month or two to get comfortable with the idea that there is a positive male influence in your life that I have to like.

[00:29:12] Get lined up with, but putting it out there upfront, so that, you know, it feels like I'm not used to dating healthier women, but I want to get better at that. I want to get comfortable. I want to acclimate to this. And so I know I'm feeling good now. I'm having data in a while, but like when I meet that person, I know I'm going to have like weird resistances that I can't explain. Like she's going to be cute. She'll be like, all the boxes are going to be ticked, but there's just something I can't figure out what it is. And it's going to be like, yeah, because she's actually healthy rounded person and your body's kind of freaking out a little bit.

[00:29:42] But using that being open and communicative, if you're in a relationship with somebody or going out dating again, then maybe not date number one. By the way, I have a lot of damage I'm working through date three or four. Things are really clicking. You've got a good vibe and be like, listen, just so you understand. I'm like, I've had some past stuff coming up. So I'm working through it, but I really like you. And I just want to like put that on the table that this is new for me, but I'm getting used to it. And if I act a little weird once in a while, it's not you. It's literally my body just readjusting to this. And I want this to work.

[00:30:09] Just open communication and recognizing that sometimes finding stability when you've lived your life so unstable is going to feel weird. I think I ought to start a online dating service. And it's I have a father dot com. That way, that way, that way you're guaranteed that that you that you have a leg up. It's like, all right, Michael, I have a father dot com. Yeah.

[00:30:34] The guy who I learned into the coaching with, I remember I spoke to him about this and he said the same thing is like you have to be able to let other men, more experienced men influence you in a positive way. Let them affect you. And it's going to feel weird because you're going to feel like maybe you need to prove something. You need to like show how awesome you whatever it is. But if they want to influence you, they want to almost nurture you, take care of you, let it happen. And he mentioned he his name is Connor Beaton. He runs man talks.

[00:31:02] He's he when he was younger, very abusive stepfather, parents divorced at a young age. He was like physically abused. He got into like drinking and drugs and alcohol. And he turned like he turned his life around. I was doing great. He's married with two kids. And he mentioned how early on his now wife, it was I think it's when he was dating. Her father really took an interest in him. And he at some point he went up to her and said, what is his deal? And she said, what do you mean?

[00:31:29] He keeps asking me all these questions about my life and how things are going. And he she's he likes you and he wants to get to know you. And he's what? Oh, what? Yeah. I've met because he literally never had it. So he was almost like, I don't understand what is he trying to look for something? Does he want something like? No, he likes you and he cares about you. And it was so new to him that he had to get used to the idea of a male, another man saying, like, I think you're a good person. I'd like to get to know you more.

[00:31:54] So getting used to or putting your cards on the table with somebody new that you meet and say, listen, I'm coming from some messed up stuff, but I want to make this work. So if I act a little weird once in a while, have some tension, whatnot, I'll be as open and communicate communicative as I can be and just see where it lands and just work through it day by day with that. And you will eventually if you if you spend enough time with a single person, they will stabilize you. So if you let it just let that kind of healing happen. Michael, you have knocked out of the park again.

[00:32:22] We never have regular calm conversations. This is in co-parenting and men's groups and dating women with fathers. I have a father dot com. Let's do it. We're going to we're going to Sizzler, but competing with Tinder and Hinge in no time. Hey, you got to have a stick. You got to have a stick. Yeah. Tell the people out there how to find you. You can find me on Facebook, Instagram.

[00:32:52] It's the adaptive mail. It's actually getting changed soon to adaptive men. But adapt the adaptive mail right now. My goal. I have a e-book that I've written up recently. It's probably going to be adaptive men dot com or adaptive dot men yet to be determined. I'll send that information to you once it's done. It can go in the show notes. And I'm hoping that the e-book is about 80 pages long, but it's getting added to over time. But the goal is to start educating men of like hormones, neuroscience, psychology. Why do I act this way?

[00:33:21] What happened in childhood? Why is there so much animosity towards men in today's day and age from a more science based perspective? How people misinterpret statistics, perceptions, biases, and social psychology and things like that? Like what happened with boys growing up in the school system? Why it's not really favorable for them? The importance of having other men in your life? All the things it does. The history of things like mail initiation processes that we've lost in the last couple hundred years and how it's really affected us in a bad way.

[00:33:48] And then moving forward, what can we do with this information and then reverse engineer to say, what worked then? Why did we change it now? How can we use it today to make our lives better? If they're interested, I'm happy to send them a copy via email. Dang. All right, sir. I appreciate your time. Once again, just hold on the line and we'll sign off. Thank you very much. I'm in here.