🛠️ "Healing After Divorce: Mastering Resilience & Finding Your Inner Warrior 💪 - THE SWEARING THERAPIST! Zulma Williams DPTSP #148

[00:00:00] Welcome to DON'T PICK THE SCAB PODCAST, where we empower men over 40 to heal, rebuild and thrive after divorce. Today I'm honored to welcome an extraordinary guest, Zulma Williams, a true warrior and inspiring example of resilience, courage and perseverance. Zulma was born in Buenos Aires, Argentina and immigrated to the US at age 31. Her journey has been nothing short of remarkable. At 42, she started her bachelor of social work.

[00:00:30] Degree, graduating at 46, only to face a breast cancer diagnosis two months later. She fought through it, moved back to Argentina for three years and returned to the US, earning her master of social work at age 50. Man, I love when old people go back to school. That is so holistic.

[00:00:49] So now, the founder of Drive and Fly Therapy Services, Zulma, specialized in trauma, anxiety and depression. Having survived cancer, abusive relationships and suicidal ideation. She has made it her mission to help others honor the warrior within themselves. Let's dive into her incredible story. Zulma, thank you for finally connecting with me. I really appreciate it. Tell Perrette about yourself and answer questions for you.

[00:01:18] Of course. Thank you for having me. It's such an honor. And I hope that I can inspire the viewers and the listeners to understand that it's never too late. As you mentioned, I moved to Argentina, from Argentina to the US at 31, at 42. I always had a passion for helping others.

[00:01:38] And I was working in accounting and I was like, you know what? I want to try to be a therapist. That is my dream. And if it doesn't work out, I can always go back to accounting. I started my bachelor's. I graduated at 46. Six weeks after graduation, I got diagnosed with breast cancer, moved back to Argentina to be close to my family, did my treatment.

[00:02:01] And I was like, I want to celebrate my 50th birthday in the States. So I moved back at 49. I celebrated my 50th birthday. I started my master's. And then fast forward to 2025. I went to Hawaii. I used to live in Las Vegas in the desert. And I went to Hawaii to celebrate my birthday, which is at the end of June, like in a couple of weeks.

[00:02:24] And it was so hot in Vegas. And I always loved the ocean. And I was like, you know what? I had to figure it out how to live by the ocean. I couldn't afford it in the States. So I moved to Panama. I pray about it. And the answer was Panama. And now I live in an apartment overlooking the ocean. And I wanted to do it now that I can still enjoy the way. I love swimming in the ocean. It's not just seeing it. It's I like to be in the water.

[00:02:54] And I wanted to do it now that I can still enjoy it. I'm going to be 61 in a couple of weeks. And I still can use my body. And I didn't want to wait until I was 85 and somebody needs to push me in a wheelchair. So I can look at the ocean. So basically the message is, it's never too late. Like when I have clients telling me like, oh, I'm too old to go back to school.

[00:03:19] I'm like, listen, I started my bachelor at 42, my master's at 50 and English is not my first language. What is your excuse? Yeah. Like, so it's never too late to pursue getting to be the person that you were always meant to be. Yeah. So what do you think? You talk about being a warrior. What does that mean to you? And how can others discover their inner warrior?

[00:03:47] To me, it means not giving up. So many times, and this doesn't mean that the journey is easy by no means. But so many times I was like, I cannot do this one more day. And it's okay. You know what? If you don't give up, it's not about not falling. It's about not remaining on the ground. So if you follow seven times, you get up eight. And I think that is the secret.

[00:04:16] And it's in the, we all have that warrior inside that wants us to be happy. And it's, I've been doing this for 20 years. You don't have to do it for another 20 years. If you are not happy, make the decision right now. Absolutely. Sorry. I don't believe in failure, right? It's when we are thinking if I try and it doesn't work out. I don't believe in failure.

[00:04:46] If you try stuff and it works out, you are happy. If you don't, if it doesn't work out, you got that information. So either way you win. All right. You're in my head because my next question was failure. Get out of my head. Many of my men over 40 struggle with failures of failure with divorce. What advice do you give those who feel stuck?

[00:05:16] That again, like if you try this, when you got married, you were in love. Hopefully you were in love with this person. We change over time. It's not just I change. We all change. And if you are not longer happy or your partner is not longer happy, why are you beating the dead horse? It's like the best thing that you can do to honor that love is to set the other person free.

[00:05:42] Because if you're not happy with me, I'm like, no, David, you don't leave me. No, you stay. No, you. It's like you're not loving me. Because when we truly love somebody, someone, I want you to be happy even if it's not with me. And I think that it's important to recognize that when we are talking about love, we have to love ourselves first.

[00:06:08] If I don't love myself, how can I love you? So that applies for everybody. Yourself included. So if you were not being happy, a lot of times, and especially I'm overgeneralizing, but especially for men, you value peace more than struggle. So it's like, I just say, even if I'm not happy, I'm not going to rock the boat. But that's not what, why you were created.

[00:06:38] You were created to be happy, not just to conform. So if you are not happy, and it's a lot of work again, I'm not saying, oh, the work in the park is not. But I think that we deserve to be happy because we all have a message for the world that the only one who can give that message is ourselves.

[00:07:00] So if for nothing else, I encourage everybody listening and watching this podcast to do it because we need to hear your message in the way that you will do it. There are a lot of people with cancer, but I am giving my message my way. I always say, I had cancer, cancer didn't have me.

[00:07:27] And that can be applied to any challenge anybody is facing. Gotcha. I believe in all the, or I talk about with my friend, my men, we talk about the self cousins, F-E-L-F cousins, self-confidence, self-compassion, self-respect. How can you take all those self cousins and wrap them into a bow in how to increase them or improve them as a divorce man?

[00:07:58] I think the first step is to embrace them, to look at them. And as uncomfortable as that is, because we don't, we are our worst enemies. So I don't have self-confidence, like, I don't know where self-confidence is. I open and it's right there and it's, oh, who are you? Okay. And then get to know, I love that concept, get to know these self cousins and then invite them one at a time. It's not going to happen.

[00:08:28] It's not going to happen overnight, right? I'm not going to be from being divorced to being super confident, but the confidence is there. If you are successful, your own definition of successful at work. That means that you have that confidence. It's just that we need to apply it to your personal life. So it's not that we need to start from scratch, but even if we need to start from scratch, that's fine.

[00:08:56] We start by getting to know that self-confidence. So it's okay. First, I invite you because I don't know who you are. I forgot who you are. Get to know you, embrace you, invite you into my life. And then we started getting, being friends. And then I start loving you. If we refer to any important relationship, it didn't happen overnight. I didn't fall in love with you. I met David. Oh, I'm in love.

[00:09:26] I'm going to get married tomorrow. And if you do, please don't get married tomorrow. That's not real love. But I get to know you. And then the real love emerged. And that's what happens with us. A lot of us, we grow up not knowing ourselves and trying to perform for everybody. Oh, if David likes me wearing white, I'm going to wear white. But if Peter doesn't like me wearing white, I'm going to wear blue.

[00:09:56] What is that? We need to start learning how to know ourselves so we can love ourselves and honor ourselves. When we start bending backwards to trying to please everybody, we forget who we are. What are some of the common patterns with people cutting recovery from abusive or toxic relationships?

[00:10:24] They need to blame yourself for your partner not being happy and to please. Oh, no, I had to. Whatever David says, I'm going to do. And it's abuse and especially verbal abuse, emotional abuse. It doesn't happen overnight. It's, oh, I'm going to go out with my friends on Friday. Oh, really? Why don't you stay? We don't spend that much time together.

[00:10:55] Why don't you stay and we're watching movies? So I cancel with my friends. And then eventually I keep doing that. My friends don't invite me anymore. Okay. Sunday, we're going to go to my mom's house. Oh, really? Because your family doesn't like me that much. So it's not like, no, you are not going to go. It's that, oh. And then eventually you are isolated. Yeah.

[00:11:21] And now you are ashamed of telling your family what's truly going on. You don't have any more friends. And also you are protective of your friends because we live together. You know where my friends live. So if the violence becomes physical, I'm not going to put my friends in danger. Right? It's not like one day I woke up and my partner is telling me, you're not going to go out with your friends.

[00:11:48] So when we start feeling like we cannot recognize ourselves, that is the first big red flag about what is going on with this relationship. Right? Well, you are overreacting. Oh, you are too emotional. You are this. You are that. What will a good friend or a therapist or a counselor or a priest,

[00:12:17] whomever you are in contact with, you need that neutral person who's going to tell you, no, no, you're not overreacting. This is not right. Because when you are in the picture, you cannot see the picture. Right. I was being too close to it. You're too close to it. I was being abused for a long time. I didn't recognize I was being abused. And my therapist at the time,

[00:12:47] she was like, you are being abused. I'm like, no, you're mistaken. He doesn't even touch me. Because to me, abuse was you being the crap out of me. You sent me to the hospital. I was being emotionally abused, sexually abused. And I didn't know that I was being abused. And culture has a lot to do with that. I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Whatever the man says goes, right? So if you want to have sex, I didn't know I could say no.

[00:13:18] And I have said no, and I wasn't respected. So I'm like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to do. So it's a lot of cultural factors. But I think that, and that's why having a therapist, having a neutral person is so important. Because you are going to be presented with a different perspective on the same situation that is going to make you question certain things.

[00:13:45] How can divorced fathers prioritize their emotional healing while still being present for their children? Ask for help. Go to therapy simply because you can doesn't mean you have to do this alone. I think that the best thing you can do for your children, for you, but I always tell my friends, I'm guilt tripping you, but I don't care as far as you're going to do it. I don't care about guilt tripping you.

[00:14:15] If you do it for the children, but really you need to do it for yourself. Once you start healing, you become a better person. A better father, a better brother, a better son, a better everything. So if at the beginning, you don't even want to do it for yourself, that's fine. But heal for your children. So how do we heal? First of all, I need to recognize, because when you go through a divorce,

[00:14:45] you're not only grieving the relationship, you are grieving all these things you're not going to get to do. Because you are grieving of, that you were going to travel with your partner and your children. You are grieving that you're not seeing your children every day. You are grieving that we were going to buy the house on the beach, and now that's not going to help. It's not just the relationship that I'm grieving, it's all the other plans,

[00:15:13] and seeing my children every night, and putting them to bed, and whatever. So in order to heal that, we first need to recognize that it's hurting. And a lot of times, men think that if they are vulnerable, they are being weak. And actually, vulnerability is the sign of strength. Because you need to be strong

[00:15:43] in order to allow yourself to be vulnerable. So please ask for help. Nobody is saying that you cannot do it alone, but why do you want to do it alone when being guided by other people is going to make the process so much easier? How do we break that stigma of men go on the therapy? It sucks. It's gotten better.

[00:16:11] It has definitely gotten better, but still, there's that speed bump or that, you know, that men don't want to go to therapy. Exactly. And the thing is that you do it. You'll be the first one to do it. And once you start the process, you're like, oh, it's not, because there is a lot of, I'm the swearing therapist. I'm keeping it clean because I forgot to ask you at the beginning if I can swear. Oh, that's fine. Go ahead. Go ahead. Okay.

[00:16:40] So what is this shit? So once you start doing it and you realize that, oh, it's not that bad. Oh, I do deserve this. Oh, I don't need to do this alone. And nobody's judging you for not doing it alone. It goes back to culture, right? Men don't ask for directions. Men don't read men. The instructions manual. Okay.

[00:17:08] You rather drive for 30 minutes than fucking taking the route that is going to take you there in five minutes. Be my guess. But simply because you can take a punch doesn't mean that you live on the ring. So it's not about, oh, I cannot do this myself. You can. But it's a lot easier. That's why we have GPS. Are you going to find the dress? Absolutely. But if you follow the GPS, you're going to be there

[00:17:38] in five minutes rather than in an hour and wasting a lot of gas and time. So this is about being practical. You are going to get on the other side of the pain that you are currently experiencing. But if you have somebody to help you along the way, why not? So you mentioned you're a dentist. If I have a toothache, no, I'm going to do this because I'm not going to call David. What? I've called David

[00:18:07] and have David giving me an antibiotic and then do whatever David needs to do so I'm not in pain anymore. What is pain? That badge that we carry. No, because look at me, I'm carrying pain. That is not practical. I'm a very practical human being so I'm not happy. Then let me go and enroll in a career that I think that is going to make me happy. Even if therapy, being a therapist didn't work for me,

[00:18:37] I can go back to accounting. Again, like, I'm gathering information. Being a therapist is not for me. But what if I didn't start when I started at 42 and now 18 years later I've been looking back and say, oh, what if I started? It's cool. It's okay. If you are thinking about it, fucking do it today. Nobody has tomorrow guaranteed. What about forgiveness? The F word again. We're going to have a hard time

[00:19:07] with that one. The F word. That is the F word. Yeah. So when I was going through my co-parenting phase, my kids are 30s. I had to love my kids more than I hated my ex. That's what got me through it. But that forgiveness part took a while. Took a long time. And people say forgiveness is for you, whatever, but it's still hard. Speak to that for me.

[00:19:36] Forgiveness is for you. I completely agree with you. But before we get to the F word, which is my other favorite F word, we need to understand in our minds that whatever that person did is a reflection of that person, not a reflection of me. Why did you do that to me? Because you are a fucking bitch. That's why. It has nothing to do with me.

[00:20:05] We have a natural tendency to personalize things that are not personal. So if you're the mother of your children was a fucking bitch, what does that have to do with you? Nothing. I don't want to interest it. You did. So it's like you need to stop personalizing and here is a quick exercise to know if you are personalizing. There is a situation. You remove yourself from the situation and you put someone else. If the situation remains the same, then it's not personal.

[00:20:36] Oh, Zulma is so rude. Zulma is a fucking equally opportunity offender. Don't feel special. She's rude to everybody. Because that's a reflection. That's a reflection of Zulma. Oh my God, I like the frankness, man. Damn. Woo. That's already for me. All right. Yes. If your ex is using

[00:21:05] the children as pawns, that is a reflection of her, not of you. So you're absolutely right. You had to love your children more than you despise your ex. But, the first step to forgiveness, I think that is, first of all, understanding that things were not like this. Because we have a natural tendency to blame ourselves. Why did I have children with this bitch?

[00:21:35] At the time you had children, she wasn't the bitch that she is writing. Yeah. Exactly. So at the time that you had the children, things were different. So now, that we have more information, we are judging ourselves for what we did five years ago, ten years ago, that is not fair. So the first one to forgive is yourself. Self-forgiveness comes first. And in order to be the best father or the best

[00:22:04] mother for my children, I need to leave this at the door because having this over me is not going to allow me to be there for my children. So that's the first step. Second step is, am I personalizing this? Is she doing it to me? Or is she hurting my children to hurt me? Again, that is a reflection of her. And I will protect my

[00:22:34] children to the best of my ability. But I cannot protect them from what the other partner is doing. it. I can't. If the mother is telling shit about you six days, five days a week, and then you get the children for two days, then you're like, how the fuck do I erase this? You don't. You start building a different image. So you are yourself with the children. It's going to take a lot longer to

[00:23:03] construct that relationship, but you take them to the park and you spend time with them and you cook together, whatever, whatever you do. Eventually, the child is going to be like, wait a minute, my daddy is not, well, my mom is that that he is. And then eventually the child is going to overcome this. But at the time that it's happening, that's a reflection of her, not a

[00:23:33] reflection of me. So I'm going to continue to do and be who I am with my children. That is a long route, right? It's a lot easier to be like, your mom is dying, I'm not like that, I don't know, whatever. Don't, you're going to lose. Because if five, again, like five days against two or four days against three or whatever, leave the child out of it, you be you

[00:24:02] with your child, and then eventually you start building that relationship. So let's focus on are we personalizing this? Because nine out of ten is not about us, it's a reflection of the other person. And we get caught up in that, that is okay. It's not like I don't get angry, but it's once I'm like, okay, bitch,

[00:24:32] I didn't personalize. And if I am, I stop personalizing, and then I don't remain angry for someone. So this is not as long as I never get angry. It's like as soon as you realize that you are allowing the other person to have power over you, you are living rent free in my head. It is my head, so I need to evict you, right? So as far as I want, I'm so

[00:25:02] focused, I want you to change, and I want you to do this, and I want you to do that. You are living here rent-free. Once I start to focus my relationship with my children, not on what you are doing, and you are not going to see it immediately, but eventually you will. So it's like you, we need to fight. if you don't engage, and if you have

[00:25:31] a divorce and you went, you've been through the courts, make sure that all communication goes through the court. Let her communicate whatever the fuck, and then the truth is going to prove it. My favorite thing was when I got a long text, this was years ago, before they have all those apps, now they have those apps that record the conversations, and so I learned she was blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, and I

[00:26:00] hit K scene. Yeah. awesome. Hey, sometimes it was lowercase, sometimes it was capital. Hey. Yes, absolutely. So with these books, right, these long paragraphs, it's like I am justifying myself. Hey, can we switch it this weekend

[00:26:29] because the other weekend is going to be Father's Day and blah, blah, blah. That's all what I need to say. And you say yes or no. When I started, no, because last year for Mother's Day and for Father's Day and when I started fucking writing a book about, that is a problem. Yeah. So I'm glad that you did it. That becomes your problem. It does in,

[00:26:58] yes, because these are your children, but you can make it a big problem or you can go straight to the goal, which is the children. Can I read through all this shit and get to, okay, when do I pick up the children? Yeah. And forget all the other shit and what you did, which is he sent Kay, I'm sure

[00:27:28] that pissed her off more than if you will have engaged into a fight. yeah. Oh, yeah. We need to fight. Yeah. When I'm like, and you're like, okay. As I said, okay, you're not engaging. And then actually over time, it does kind of settle down because they figure out that they can't ramp you up. Because I don't

[00:27:58] engage, you're not engaging anymore. Yeah. Wow. Man, what a podcast. It's been interesting. My man have about a half hour attention span. So where can they find you on the internet? Why you're letting know it. My website is dragonflytherapyservices.net and my Instagram is at the swearing therapist. Okay. Any parting words for my men out there?

[00:28:28] Yes. If you woke up today, that means that your mission in life is not complete. Keep putting one foot in front of the other and you're going to come on the other side of the challenge you're currently facing. Thank you so much for having you. That was awesome. Wow. That was a great podcast. Yeah, send me this and I'll get it up probably in a week. You got any big plans for the weekend? No, just going to the beach because that's where I live now. Just get in the

[00:28:58] water, swim. What a life, guys. Well, you were complaining about being 61. I'm 65, sweetheart. And the life is, oh yeah. I got remarried and man, I've been very blessed. I was never going to redo it again. Never, ever going to do it. And she came in my life and life is good. So I'm very blessed. So you're right. Listen, just sit back. Yeah. My dad got remarried at 73.

[00:29:29] And I was like, my siblings were like, why are you going to marry her? And I was like, dad, are you happy? I'm thinking how long is this motherfucker going to live? He died of COVID 24 years later. He was the one who got the longest marriage in the entire family at 73. If he wasn't a woman 24 years, it's never too late.

[00:29:59] I don't complain about being 61. I'm so damn fucking proud of being 61 and pursuing my dreams. So David, it has been an absolute pleasure. Oh, let me fucking stop recording this.