Emphasizing Holistic Approaches to Wellness in Your Divorce Recovery Dr. Marie Dona || DPTSP #065 || David

[00:00:00] Welcome back to the Don't Pick The Sky podcast, a podcast that provides great guests with interesting superpowers and insights in order for men over 40 to heal and recover from divorce.

[00:00:10] Welcome Dr. Marie Dona to the show. She's a psychiatrist and therapist from Tampa, Florida, stressing mental health and overall wellness.

[00:00:18] And she treats a wide range of conditions. And I don't... Her hat is huge.

[00:00:27] Um, so go ahead and tell us a little bit about yourself, Marie. And we've got some questions for you and see if we help my man. So go ahead and take it.

[00:00:50] Welcome to the Don't Pick The Scab podcast with the premise of connecting men over 40 with the tools and community to thrive in their divorce recovery, either before, during or after a divorce. Check it out.

[00:01:04] Yeah, definitely. Well, thank you so much for having me on the podcast, David. I'm so excited to be here.

[00:01:09] So I know you mentioned that I do take many hats on, but I just appreciate learning. Like I love to learn. And I feel like if that's something that I'm going to do for the rest of my life, just because it's so fulfilling and, you know, education, technology, that's always changing. So I like to stay up to date on all these things. But a little bit more about me is that I am a psychiatrist and therapist.

[00:01:33] So a lot of times when people think about psychiatrists, actually, sometimes people are actually confused what a psychiatrist versus a psychologist is.

[00:01:40] So that's something that I have to clarify a bunch of times. But a psychiatrist is an actual medical doctor that can prescribe medicines and a psychologist is a therapist.

[00:01:49] But what I get to do differently because I have the luxury of having my own private practice is that I get to do both.

[00:01:56] So I do prescribe medicines. I have the ability to prescribe medicines, but I also do a ton of psychotherapy and behavioral interventions within my practice, which is really great.

[00:02:07] How does your background as a first generation Filipino American influence your approach to mental health care?

[00:02:13] Yeah, so I would definitely say that my background does influence there. My dad was a physician kind of growing up, but a little bit more of a tumultuous upbringing in that.

[00:02:24] Yeah, similar to what we're talking about before we started, he was always busy, never home.

[00:02:29] I always knew I wanted to be a physician growing up, but like that my both my mom and dad, they were immigrants.

[00:02:35] So it was just a little bit harder for them assimilating to the American culture.

[00:02:39] And I knew I wanted to pursue being a physician.

[00:02:43] But my dad, like he had his own, he has his own mental health issues.

[00:02:46] So that actually happened when I was growing up that we had to deal with.

[00:02:51] So that kind of derailed plans for the family.

[00:02:54] Like my father was a physician.

[00:02:56] So traditionally people in physician, like medical households, they would grow very wealthy.

[00:03:02] But by the time I was 13, 14, we like lost it all because of issues that happened during my dad's career.

[00:03:10] So we basically had to start from the ground up.

[00:03:13] A few years later, I lost my mom to a car accident very unexpectedly.

[00:03:18] That was really tragic and really hard.

[00:03:21] But I think that with all of this upbringing, it's led me and definitely has led me to the person that I am today.

[00:03:27] And that I've, regardless of all the history with my family, I've wanted to continue to pursue what I'm doing right now and what I'm passionate about, which is mental health and continuing to serve people at the best of my ability.

[00:03:41] What does advocating for mental health mean to you?

[00:03:44] And why is it so important in today's society?

[00:03:47] So advocating for mental health.

[00:03:49] So I will say it is better than it was before.

[00:03:52] So there has always been this stigma around mental health and taking care of yourself, whether it is therapy, medicines and or a combination of the two.

[00:04:02] But when it comes to advocating for mental health, just saying that.

[00:04:05] So I basically tell people all the time, I think that basically anyone would benefit from talking to a counselor or therapist, right?

[00:04:12] It's just someone who is there completely impartial, unbiased that you can vent to.

[00:04:17] But obviously there are specialist therapists or people who are going through specific circumstances and situations.

[00:04:24] But I just don't want it to be this.

[00:04:26] Oh, my gosh, I have to go to a therapist.

[00:04:28] I have to go to a psychiatrist.

[00:04:29] Now I'm feeling like I'm less than or something is wrong with me because it's so common for people to have so many issues.

[00:04:37] But we've been taught in the past to just hide or to just deal with it.

[00:04:41] Definitely.

[00:04:41] But I don't think it should be like that anymore.

[00:04:44] So that's where my passion for advocacy and wanting to remove the stigma against mental health is a big goal of mine.

[00:04:51] Someone who's board certified.

[00:04:53] What unique insights and expertise do you bring to treating a wide range of mental health conditions?

[00:04:59] How does that help you?

[00:05:00] Yeah, board certified.

[00:05:02] So I was telling you, so I'm actually triple board certified, but two are psychiatry specifically.

[00:05:07] So I'm board certified in children and adolescent population.

[00:05:10] So that's an additional fellowship.

[00:05:13] So that means I get to treat specifically children, adolescent age, which regular psychiatrists don't.

[00:05:19] There's adult, regular adult psychiatric training, which is what I'm also board certified in.

[00:05:24] But that's typically 18 plus.

[00:05:26] But that means I get to treat basically kids from three.

[00:05:30] So like huge range of variability, but it was two additional years of training that allowed me to be able to do.

[00:05:37] But a great thing about that additional board certification is that I get to see this big picture.

[00:05:43] And I do think that when you're able to identify our spot, mental health concerns at a younger age, that's when you can really make an impact.

[00:05:52] Obviously, you can make an impact when people are older, but just being able to experience and be able to potentially intervene earlier or even know how background history, childhood can influence adult behaviors.

[00:06:05] I think it's really huge.

[00:06:06] And then my additional board certification is in obesity medicine, just because a lot of psychiatric medicines can impact weight and weight management.

[00:06:17] And a huge emphasis that I place on in my practice are more holistic things like nutrition, dietary needs, sleep, exercise, physical activity, all of the above.

[00:06:28] And I feel like that additional certification has just allowed me this more comprehensive approach to treating people.

[00:06:34] So we talked about kids.

[00:06:36] We talked about co-parenting earlier and the craziness that goes on with co-parenting.

[00:06:41] What are some of the tips you can give to men out there with co-parenting from not trying to control what's going on at the ex's house to trying to be the best father you could be?

[00:06:50] What are some of the tips and tricks you can give men out there?

[00:06:53] Yeah.

[00:06:54] So I'm going to say co-parenting can be hard, especially in the initial phases.

[00:06:58] Say you actually recently just got divorced or it's very fresh.

[00:07:03] All of the feelings, whether they're anger or frustration, sadness, I think they're completely valid.

[00:07:08] And that's where it might be especially more difficult.

[00:07:12] But that's at the time when I would encourage the person, the man going through the process to maybe work on themselves, whether that's engaged in therapy to understand that is normal, what they're going through.

[00:07:21] And then once that time frame has passed, a lot of times time will tend to help in general with tempering feelings, whether it's anger, resentment, et cetera.

[00:07:32] And then coming to terms with, OK, bottom line, what is the most important thing here?

[00:07:37] And that's going to be for caring for the children, right?

[00:07:40] Not the maybe negative history that you have with your ex or the feelings of anger, frustration, resentment from them.

[00:07:46] So understanding, OK, what are we actually trying to do here?

[00:07:49] And that's going to be trying to be the best parent to our children that we can.

[00:07:53] OK, so once you've identified that, that might give a clear picture versus, oh, I'm seeing my ex now.

[00:07:57] I just want to yell, scream, go against everything they're saying.

[00:08:00] And I will say when it also comes to upbringing for the children, a lot of times it is better to try to align when it comes to either upbringing, whether it is when it's coming to punishments or if certain behaviors are going out, going on in the different households.

[00:08:18] And this is all this all takes time, too.

[00:08:21] So I would say it's an adjustment period.

[00:08:23] And this is where it might just take some time to figure out what is working for the dad and what's working for the mom and what's working for the kids.

[00:08:31] But this is where if the person is able and open to be adaptable and flexible to the situation and ultimately know, yeah, I might be frustrated and I might be upset.

[00:08:41] But we are trying to do this for the sake of the children.

[00:08:44] Then I would I think that would be a good starting place.

[00:08:47] I did week on week off change on Sunday.

[00:08:51] And I just talked about this prior podcast where somebody was telling me how they talked about the jack in the box, jack in the box dad, where like the week he has them, he's go.

[00:09:02] And then the week he doesn't have them, he closes the box and kind of goes being like a recluse.

[00:09:08] How can you give tips to men not to do that, to take care of themselves?

[00:09:13] And that kind of relates to me for self-care.

[00:09:15] Self-care is huge and people don't practice that.

[00:09:19] How important is that?

[00:09:20] Yeah.

[00:09:21] So I'm going to definitely say self-care is definitely huge just because I can like I can see where people could be coming from with wanting to be a jack in the box dad, like totally on and totally doing everything you can for your kids.

[00:09:33] But that's also sounds very hard and exhausting, too.

[00:09:36] So it makes sense that once the week is off, you'd be like, I'm dead.

[00:09:41] I'm tired.

[00:09:42] I don't want to do anything.

[00:09:43] But this is where it sounds like a really high and then a low, which, again, makes it if you want to find like a happy medium that is sustainable.

[00:09:49] So self-care is definitely something that can do that.

[00:09:52] So making sure that both when you're with your kids, but when you're not with your kids, like trying to engage in regular routines, whether it's trying to exercise on a regular basis, if that's something that you enjoy doing, trying to eat as well as you can.

[00:10:07] Like whatever your structure or routine is, trying to make that something that you keep up when you're with your kids as much as you can.

[00:10:14] I know that sometimes there might be differences, but trying to structure your life in a way that works for you, whether you're with your kids or when you're not so that it isn't such a big high and such a big low or such a stark contrast between the two so that when you're not with your kids, you still are able to have that energy to want to check in, to be there for your kids, even though they're not actually physically with you.

[00:10:36] Yeah.

[00:10:37] What are some of the signs that men need help?

[00:10:42] We're not that sex that even asks for help, but it's getting better.

[00:10:47] Yeah.

[00:10:47] So what are some of the signs that manifest themselves for a man to say, hey, I need outside help.

[00:10:52] I need a psychiatrist.

[00:10:53] I need a therapist.

[00:10:54] I need a counselor.

[00:10:55] I need somebody else to help me with this, either with kids or with themselves.

[00:11:00] What's some of the signs?

[00:11:01] Yeah.

[00:11:01] So I will say you are definitely right in that men definitely are less apt to reach out for help, but it has gotten better in that I do have a few male clients myself.

[00:11:11] But signs that I would be looking for out as a male would be like anger.

[00:11:18] Anger can be manifested in so many ways, which can be underlying for either depression or anxiety or excess stress.

[00:11:28] So like getting angry at the drop of a hat without and nothing's really causing it or such a small, miniscule thing.

[00:11:35] And you're like blowing up or screaming or yelling or throwing something.

[00:11:38] And you're like, wait a second, I don't typically say if someone's angry kind of throughout your whole life, okay, maybe not so weird.

[00:11:43] But if that is totally atypical behavior, that would be something to look out for.

[00:11:48] Or additional things would be isolation or anything that is differing from someone's character.

[00:11:54] So say someone is really outgoing.

[00:11:56] They have a lot of friends.

[00:11:57] They're usually going out and socializing.

[00:11:59] But all of a sudden they're withdrawing.

[00:12:01] They're isolating themselves.

[00:12:02] They don't want to hang out or talk with people.

[00:12:04] That is another telltale sign that something could be going on with this person.

[00:12:09] Or self-care hygiene.

[00:12:11] Say someone exercise.

[00:12:13] You know, like all of these things that you wouldn't even realize.

[00:12:16] Bathing.

[00:12:16] Okay, I know maybe not everyone showers every day.

[00:12:19] But say someone has some sort of hygiene routine like a few times a week.

[00:12:23] And they're like, you know what?

[00:12:24] I'm just not going to shower.

[00:12:25] And it's been weeks.

[00:12:26] They're typically somewhat tidy.

[00:12:29] And like food containers are all over the place.

[00:12:32] Or they're just going to be things that like, okay, something's slipping through the cracks

[00:12:36] that might need additional support.

[00:12:38] Sleep is up.

[00:12:38] Or I would say when it comes to other ways of coping, which might not be as helpful,

[00:12:42] would be substances.

[00:12:45] Nothing is wrong with maybe drinking on social or whatever.

[00:12:47] But if someone is finding, oh, I need more to drink at night to get to sleep.

[00:12:53] I don't want to think about what I'm going through.

[00:12:56] I don't want to deal with it.

[00:12:57] So I'm going to drink more.

[00:12:59] And then maybe more of a dependence actually happens on the substance.

[00:13:02] It is alcohol, marijuana, whatever, right?

[00:13:06] Whatever substance that might be.

[00:13:07] That would be potentially a telltale sign.

[00:13:10] Something else is going on here that I might need to identify and try to work on.

[00:13:15] Or I just can't do it.

[00:13:16] They're at work.

[00:13:17] They're frustrated that they can't do.

[00:13:19] They can't concentrate.

[00:13:20] They feel like they just can't get done what they need to do to actually just live.

[00:13:26] Their regular life.

[00:13:27] That would be another sign.

[00:13:29] So there are so many signs that can be subtle, but it basically comes with impairment of that

[00:13:34] person's functioning from what it used to be versus how it is at that time.

[00:13:39] Wow.

[00:13:40] What are some of the most fulfilling aspects of your work that keeps you motivated to continue

[00:13:46] making a difference in the lives of your patients?

[00:13:48] What are some of the wins you have?

[00:13:50] So I will say this work can be hard at times because obviously I hear like a wide range of

[00:13:55] things.

[00:13:55] But the things that keep me going are just the ability to impact and help people through this.

[00:14:02] Just because a lot of times when people come to me, they feel like, oh, I just felt like

[00:14:07] something was wrong with me or that I was crazy or that I would never be able to feel better from

[00:14:12] here.

[00:14:12] But understanding, okay, hey, I'm not alone.

[00:14:16] Like I'm not like there isn't something just innately wrong with me or I don't have to

[00:14:21] suffer through this alone, but there is actually help out there and then being able to be part of that

[00:14:26] person's journey and that person's life too.

[00:14:28] Because I'm going to say it's incredibly hard for people to reach out for help.

[00:14:33] And I will say for men in particular, but just when someone is actually coming to meet with me,

[00:14:38] I already give them kudos right away.

[00:14:40] I know it must have been hard for you to reach out because you're willing to.

[00:14:45] That means you are ready to make the next steps from here.

[00:14:48] And I think that, yeah, people reaching out to me, that just means, okay, there are people out

[00:14:52] there who still want to work on themselves and get some help.

[00:14:55] And I really like the ability to be able to impact people's lives so much in such a great way.

[00:15:02] What about the cousin of self-care, self-confidence?

[00:15:06] That is a huge thing.

[00:15:08] So that is something I talk about on a regular basis.

[00:15:10] So self-confidence is very hard because it's something that a lot of times people who might

[00:15:16] struggle with anxiety and depression might not have, or it might be due to an incident like

[00:15:21] divorce, right?

[00:15:22] Okay.

[00:15:22] Now you've started to question yourself, your self-worth, like all the choices that you've

[00:15:27] made.

[00:15:28] And that is really difficult.

[00:15:29] But this is where I'm recognizing, hey, I've noticed that I'm feeling differently about

[00:15:36] myself.

[00:15:36] Like I used to perform very well at work, or I used to be really, I used to think I was really

[00:15:41] good at my job, but for whatever reason, I'm now questioning everything that I'm doing.

[00:15:46] I'm so anxious when I'm interacting with other people, but just knowing that can be normal

[00:15:51] too, when someone goes through an incredibly difficult thing like a divorce.

[00:15:55] So that is normal, but this is where recognizing yourself.

[00:15:59] And this is where I say to, so I'll emphasize to a lot of people, I think therapy is beneficial

[00:16:03] just because sometimes people, they aren't able to be as in touch with their emotions and

[00:16:08] their feelings, like as insightful when they haven't.

[00:16:11] Been involved with actively wanting to work and process on their emotions.

[00:16:15] And it can be scary too, to actually confront it.

[00:16:17] I will say a lot of men in general will avoid it.

[00:16:20] Be like, oh, this just sucks.

[00:16:21] So I'm just going to deal with it.

[00:16:22] But that doesn't actually address the issue.

[00:16:24] But then with becoming insightful, looking into yourself saying, okay, something's off,

[00:16:29] something's not right.

[00:16:30] I'm questioning everything I'm doing.

[00:16:31] My confidence is off.

[00:16:33] Okay.

[00:16:34] Now that you've recognized that's something where you can actually try to work on it,

[00:16:37] whether it be, okay, I've been, and this is more of like a cognitive behavioral thing,

[00:16:42] but I've been focusing on the negatives.

[00:16:44] I was focusing on what I messed up in my relationship, how I'm not taking care of the kids,

[00:16:49] right?

[00:16:49] So just to let me reframe my thinking and think about what I am actually doing, right?

[00:16:54] What I'm working on to help myself out of the situation, what I'm doing to continue to

[00:16:59] engage in self-care and continue to move forward.

[00:17:02] Affirmations, validations, these are all things that can be helpful and supportive when it

[00:17:06] comes to trying to work on self-confidence.

[00:17:08] And no, it's hard to give all this stuff was easy.

[00:17:10] People wouldn't have issues with this, but this is where the recognition, the insight,

[00:17:14] and the willingness to work on these things, I think can be beneficial.

[00:17:18] And even the third cousin of self-confidence and self-care is identity.

[00:17:23] Men have a hard time with that.

[00:17:25] It's almost like we lose our identity once the divorce starts.

[00:17:29] And we almost have a hard time getting it back.

[00:17:32] We're trying to figure out who we are or where we place in life.

[00:17:36] How do you speak to that?

[00:17:37] Yeah.

[00:17:38] So I can definitely see that too, just because after divorce, like your life has probably

[00:17:42] been defined in a sort of identity for so long at that point, right?

[00:17:46] Whether it was a husband, a caregiver, whatever the situation that you were in, then all of

[00:17:50] a sudden there's an abrupt change and now you're left questioning your identity or where

[00:17:55] you fit in the world.

[00:17:56] And I do think that would be normal for anyone going through something like a divorce.

[00:18:01] But this is where with everything that we've talked about with in terms of, okay, I've

[00:18:07] identified that something is feeling off or like I'm feeling not like myself or that I'm

[00:18:12] losing part of myself or that I'm just not the person that I was in the past.

[00:18:16] Being introspective and insightful enough to recognize that this is going on, that's where

[00:18:21] that person can, and I'm going to say this is hard too, but having the willingness to

[00:18:26] sit down and actually address it.

[00:18:28] Because again, avoidance is like one of the most common defense mechanisms.

[00:18:31] Something's off.

[00:18:31] I don't want to actually deal with it.

[00:18:33] But then when that person will actually sit there and be like, okay, I felt like I've lost

[00:18:37] part of myself.

[00:18:39] What can I do to help get that back?

[00:18:42] Whether it was, I used to enjoy this XYZ hobby.

[00:18:46] Like I used to go, I used to do this or that.

[00:18:49] But when I was married, I wasn't able to do that.

[00:18:51] So I just became like a husband and like a family man.

[00:18:56] What can I do that makes me feel whole again?

[00:18:58] And or that whether it's hobbies or engaging in friendships or people that were supportive

[00:19:02] of you in the past.

[00:19:03] And I will say a lot of times it does happen in relationships where you lose those social

[00:19:08] connections, but then think being able to identify the things that would help bring you back to

[00:19:13] what brought you happiness, what brought you joy to what makes you feel like yourself.

[00:19:18] And then actively trying to work towards those things could help bring you back to either

[00:19:23] your identity or if you're wanting to be working on different things.

[00:19:27] Okay.

[00:19:28] I might've been this person before, whether there were things that maybe someone wasn't

[00:19:31] happy with anger or like someone who's easy to frustration.

[00:19:35] Hey, I've identified that I've done this before.

[00:19:37] I don't want to do that anymore.

[00:19:38] This is where that person can decide I'm going to do X, Y, Z to try to change to become even

[00:19:44] better from here.

[00:19:46] As someone who's passionate about running, swimming, singing, how do you encourage your

[00:19:50] patients to explore creative outlets and self-care practices?

[00:19:55] What kind of things do you suggest?

[00:19:57] Yeah.

[00:19:58] Basically when I was in the office, so I'm a huge advocate for physical activity in general,

[00:20:04] just because there's so many benefits, whether that is physical, obviously physical benefits,

[00:20:09] medical benefits, but then mental health benefits.

[00:20:11] Like when people are exercising, it releases endorphins, right?

[00:20:14] Like immediately right after they're exercising.

[00:20:16] Not only that, but it actually helps increase the production of serotonin in itself too, which

[00:20:22] is what is the premise of almost all.

[00:20:24] Like basically all the antidepressant medicines are based in like their SSRIs, right?

[00:20:28] So it actually is causing the production and release of serotonin as well when people are

[00:20:32] engaging in physical activity, which is why I'm a huge advocate for it.

[00:20:37] So I basically, I encourage people to try if they've identified things that they've liked

[00:20:43] in the past, whether it was running, swimming, like whatever physical activity, if they liked

[00:20:49] doing that before, or even just trying it out.

[00:20:51] People are doing pickleball nowadays, like just encouraging them to explore other options.

[00:20:57] They're knowing it's not a one size fits all and you can continue brainstorming.

[00:21:01] Say you do something and you hate it.

[00:21:02] It doesn't mean you need to keep doing it.

[00:21:04] It just means if you're willing and open to continue trying these outlets, why not?

[00:21:09] Because the, so not only physical activity, but like creative outlets, like these are

[00:21:13] things that are supposed to be additive and joyful to your life.

[00:21:17] You never want to add anything that's going to be more stressful to you or make you feel

[00:21:21] like, okay, I'm taking this on, but it's not adding anything to my life.

[00:21:24] It's just making me feel worse.

[00:21:26] You want to find something that you are feeling happy, passionate about that you actually want

[00:21:30] to engage in to be fulfilling, like to help you feel fulfilled and to add joy to your

[00:21:35] life in general.

[00:21:36] So I'd be looking, I would encourage people like that.

[00:21:38] And there's like lists out there.

[00:21:40] Okay.

[00:21:40] What are things that people can do?

[00:21:41] There's lists, but this is where it's very individual.

[00:21:44] Yeah.

[00:21:46] Are there any significant, I'm sorry.

[00:21:48] Are there any significant advancements or innovations happening in the field of psychiatry

[00:21:54] and how are they improving patient outcomes?

[00:21:57] So I would say the biggest advancements would be not, not necessarily just the medication route,

[00:22:03] but there are other types of treatment out there, which would be like transmagnetic cranial

[00:22:08] stimulation, which is, these are for when people have treatment resistant depression.

[00:22:13] There's also ketamine treatment.

[00:22:15] So say someone is struggling a little bit more with more severe mental health conditions,

[00:22:20] like treatment resistant depression.

[00:22:21] I would say there's been more movement in that front.

[00:22:23] Like ECT has been around for a while, but there's more emphasis on more of these non-invasive

[00:22:29] treatments that people have been exploring when they have pursued the additional.

[00:22:34] They've pursued the traditional route of meds, therapy, and they're still struggling.

[00:22:40] So there are just more options out there and they're always continuously coming out with

[00:22:44] new and improved psychiatric medicine.

[00:22:47] So I think that has been good too, just because a lot of times the, one of the issues with the

[00:22:52] SSRIs was that sometimes it would cause sexual side effects, but the newer ones that have come

[00:22:57] out that that is less of a potential concern.

[00:22:59] So they're always working on things within the field of psychiatry to help with all these

[00:23:04] conditions like depression and anxiety.

[00:23:06] What I'm hearing is that the old school psychiatry used to be drugs and now it's more, less drugs

[00:23:13] and more therapy, basically more, more non-drug modalities.

[00:23:17] There we go.

[00:23:18] That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:23:19] Yeah.

[00:23:20] So I will say drugs are still a main mainstay, but I will say personally, I love, I emphasize

[00:23:28] everything else too.

[00:23:29] And one thing I emphasize to basically all my patients is that yes, the medicines are

[00:23:33] there and they're a tool, but they shouldn't just be, okay, I'm just going to take this

[00:23:36] medicine and that's going to be, it's going to solve all my problems because honestly that

[00:23:40] will never be it.

[00:23:41] But sometimes when things will fail, it will just be because there's so much emphasis on

[00:23:45] the meds, but medicines, the behavioral interventions, and then say if someone is treatment

[00:23:49] resistant to the medicines, that's when they have those kind of like higher levels of treatment,

[00:23:54] whether it be the TMS, the ketamine treatment, CT, et cetera.

[00:23:59] So you got three things to tell my men over 40 healing from divorce.

[00:24:03] What are the top three things you want to convey to them out of this podcast?

[00:24:08] So the top, I can think about that for a minute, but basically top three things for a man healing

[00:24:14] from divorce would be one that is, yeah, it's probably going to suck and it's probably going

[00:24:19] to hurt, but that is normal.

[00:24:20] And that doesn't mean anything is wrong with you.

[00:24:23] And that doesn't mean that you're failing at life just because you've went through this

[00:24:27] really hard thing.

[00:24:28] It just means you are a person going through a really hard thing.

[00:24:31] So that's one thing I want to emphasize in that it is normal that it is hard, but this

[00:24:36] is also where too, if they're noticing that it is very hard for them and this can align

[00:24:42] with some of the things that I'd mentioned before.

[00:24:44] Or they can't do what they need to do in their job or in their lives, or they're getting angry

[00:24:49] or they're frustrated or they're isolating themselves.

[00:24:52] They're not taking care of themselves.

[00:24:54] It's okay to reach out for support.

[00:24:57] And I would highly suggest it just because so many people and so many men in general think

[00:25:02] I can fix this on my own.

[00:25:03] I can do it on my own, but you don't have to.

[00:25:06] There are resources out there that can help people.

[00:25:09] I'm not saying that you need to do this forever, but going through divorce is incredibly difficult.

[00:25:14] So it is okay if you do need additional support, even if it is for a limited amount of time.

[00:25:21] I guess that would be maybe one or two.

[00:25:22] And then, yeah, the third thing would be, yeah, huge emphasis on self-care.

[00:25:27] So whether that is engaging in physical activity, I already talked about how I'm such a huge advocate

[00:25:32] for physical, medical, mental health benefits.

[00:25:36] And then also engaging in new hobbies.

[00:25:39] Like we talked about identification, the loss of identification.

[00:25:41] But then when you're talking about self-care, it's also what is going to be helpful and fulfilling

[00:25:46] for me in my life.

[00:25:47] I will say, for example, one of my clients, they went through a divorce.

[00:25:51] They found out that they loved jet skiing.

[00:25:54] So then they got a jet ski and now it's something that they do every weekend.

[00:25:57] And it's just like a whole new passion and it's changed their lives completely.

[00:26:01] Just because they were able to find something that gave them so much joy.

[00:26:05] So just it's okay.

[00:26:07] Yeah.

[00:26:07] One, it's okay that it's hard recognizing when you could use support, you should reach

[00:26:12] out and get that.

[00:26:13] And two, it's really going to be important to take care of yourself throughout this process

[00:26:17] because it is hard, but it doesn't mean that you deserve to sit in a room, be completely

[00:26:22] isolated and depressed and just suffer through it.

[00:26:24] That's not what that means.

[00:26:26] It means, okay, you are in a different part of your life right now, but this is where you

[00:26:31] can be spending that time to focus on you and lead it in a direction that you would feel

[00:26:35] good moving towards.

[00:26:37] Doc, my men have about a 27 and a minute and a half attention span.

[00:26:44] So we have exhausted that, but thank you very much, man.

[00:26:47] That was awesome.

[00:26:47] That was almost like a lightning round.

[00:26:49] That's a whole lot of stuff to unpack.

[00:26:52] Let the people out there know where to find you on the internet.

[00:26:56] Sure.

[00:26:56] So I have my private practice in Riverview, Florida, but I'm able to see people virtually

[00:27:02] Florida, New York, Pennsylvania, and Washington, DC.

[00:27:06] You can find me on my website, which is www.donawellnessclinic.com.

[00:27:13] I also have a YouTube page where I have educational videos about all mental health related stuff.

[00:27:19] So that's you.

[00:27:19] And then just at donawellnessclinic.com, Facebook.

[00:27:23] So there's many ways to find me on social media nowadays.

[00:27:28] All right.

[00:27:28] We appreciate your time.

[00:27:30] Just hold on the mic for a second.

[00:27:31] Just go ahead, sign up, but don't go anywhere.

[00:27:34] But thank you for your time and everybody out there.

[00:27:37] Have a good night.

[00:27:38] Thank you.