Divorce Survival Guide for Men Over 40: Wisdom from Nicky Billou 🛠️

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Don't Pit the Scab Podcast. Today, we have busy guest Nicky Billou, who's been hailed as the world's greatest podcast guest. I'm going to check that out too. With over 600 podcast appearances, Nicky brings unmatched energy and actionable insights to every conversation. He is a two-time New York Times bestselling author known for his impactful books like Finish Line, Thinking, and The Power of Connecting. As a founder of the East Circle Academy, we'll talk about that too, Nicky empowers coaches in the world's greatest podcast.

[00:00:29] Nicky will help you to help entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs to become thought leaders in their fields. His expertise in personal development and relationship building is invaluable, especially for men over 40 navigating the challenges of divorce. In this episode, Nicky will share his wisdom on resilience, reinvention, and the power of connection, helping turn your divorce experience into a stepping stone for a brighter future. Get ready for an inspiring discussion that could change your life. Welcome to the Don't Pit the Scab,

[00:01:12] Don't Pit the Scab Podcast with the premise of connecting men over 40 with the tools and community to thrive in their divorce recovery either before, during, or after a divorce. All right, Nicky, tell us a little bit about yourself. Well, first of all, David, thanks for having me on the show. It's a real pleasure and an honor to be here. I'm going to tell you the story of me getting involved with the work of men because there's multiple facets and aspects to my story. I think this is what's most relevant to your audience.

[00:01:41] So in September 2009, seemingly out of the blue, my then wife kicked me out of the house with papers. And I was absolutely and utterly shocked. I did not see it coming. Maybe I should have in retrospect, but I really didn't.

[00:02:01] And I spiraled downward into a place of anger, self-pity, and victimhood. And it took me a while to realize that that's what had happened. I'd been in business with her, so my business pretty much went down to zero. And I was sleeping on my mother's couch. Otherwise, I'd be on the street and homeless. Okay. Wow. Wow.

[00:02:27] So a woman I knew who had been a teacher of mine, of both of ours, my exes and mine, was one of the few people other than my mom who took a stand for me and my marriage. And she said, you need to go talk to this man, Owen Williams. He works with men in relationship distress. So I did. I did some coaching sessions with him. And then I realized he did some men's group work.

[00:02:50] So I joined one of his men's groups. And I started to realize that it was in the company of men that I was going to be able to heal. You know, because a lot of men, when they get hurt, they want to run into the arms of a woman and they go, oh yeah, she'll help me. She'll nurture me. But that really isn't what's going to cut it.

[00:03:10] It was with being with other men and revealing the dark depths of my pain that I started to heal. And I started being in men's group in 2010 and I pretty much never stopped. I was in Owen's group for a little over two years. And then I joined another group in 2012 and I was there for six years.

[00:03:35] And then in 2018, I started my own group and I've been running that for seven years. Man, that's a long time. In the Bible, it says iron will sharpen iron. And that's the truth of men being together. You know, a lot of the time, a lot of men that are going through this unexpected divorce, they get upset, they get angry and they blame the other person, the woman.

[00:04:03] And that was me, man. I blamed her like you wouldn't believe it. And I had all kinds of good reasons. I could get into why and you would, you would believe me, believe me. I could sell that story like nobody's business. But here's the truth. Here's the truth. I did not understand how to be a husband. I thought, I just got to make money and be faithful. I've done my job. Boy, was I wrong. Boy, was I wrong.

[00:04:29] My youngest son at the time of our divorce was a year and a bit. He'd been born with a medical condition called subglottic tracheal stenosis, which in English means his windpipe was too narrow. At two weeks, he landed in the hospital, almost died. And at a year and a half again, and at a year and a half, a doctor over there freaked my ex into thinking, you better do this really risky surgery or he's going to die. We got to open up his throat.

[00:04:57] And I'm like, no. And I fought with her about it. I didn't stand with her, put my arm around her and say, honey, I get it. We're going to figure this out together. I fought with her and I scared her. And that is where she was like, okay, I got to do this to save my son. And it wasn't true. She didn't need to do it to save our son. Our son was not going to die.

[00:05:20] He just had a father who didn't want him to have his throat ripped open because there was a 20% chance the surgery would fail. He'd be worse off than he was before. And I didn't want that for him. Did not want that for him at all. But I didn't know how to speak to my wife. I didn't know how to calm her down. And as a result, you know, I lost my marriage. I lost my marriage because I was proud.

[00:05:45] And I lost my marriage because I did not know how to deal with my wife as a woman and a mother. I lost my marriage because back then I didn't have men around me to set me straight. Now, for a while, I tried to get our marriage back together, but she had no interest in it. But being with these men brought me to the point where I was able to forgive her, forgive myself for screwing up the marriage and move forward.

[00:06:13] And when that happened, we started to be able to properly co-parent our sons. And I got two teenage sons right now. One is 19, one is 17. And both my sons are men, my 19-year-old especially. He decided not to go to university. He's working full-time seven days a week as a fitness coach. 14-hour days, he's making his own money. He's helping his mom out. Bought himself a car. Bought himself furniture. Invest money in the stock market. Doing his thing.

[00:06:41] So, he's found his path in life. That became possible because I found my path out of this unwanted, undesired, hellhole of a situation. That's when I started to realize it was happening for me, not to me. Everything in life happens for me, not to me. And every man here who's listening to this ought to understand that. And my younger son, who's 17, he's in grade 11. He just finished grade 11.

[00:07:07] He plays two sports. He's working the summer. You know, he's on a path too. He doesn't have everything figured out the way his older brother does, but he's moving in a good direction. The right direction. And here's the truth, man. As a father, I'm doing my job and I'm doing it well. You know, and if a man's listening to this, he's over 40.

[00:07:37] First thing you got to get is regardless of why you're in a divorce situation, the only power in figuring it out for yourself is to take the onus on yourself. Don't blame her. Take full responsibility. Responsibility doesn't mean you blame yourself either. Blame's out of the equation. Responsible, able to respond, able to respond.

[00:07:57] That means you have a path forward to either resurrect the marriage or if that's not possible to transcend it and transcend the hell and raise your kids to be strong. Because I know too many men whose sons are pussies and that shouldn't be that way. You know, my boys are not pussies. And that's because they have me as their father. And if a man's listening to this and he's in that pain, I feel you.

[00:08:25] I hear you and I feel your pain. And I want to tell you there's a better way out. And if you want to talk to me or talk to David or you need any sort of help, reach the fuck out. Because doing this alone is the slow road to hell or maybe the fast road to hell.

[00:08:45] And the road to heaven is when you have other men in your life who are good men, who've had some experience and can show you a path, a path forward that's a good path for you, for your sons and daughters, and even for your wife or your ex-wife. And by the way, you need to come to a place of love for her, even if you're never going to be with her again, because she is the mother of your fucking children. And that is a position of honor. Your kids are half her.

[00:09:14] Don't ever forget that. If you forget that, let me slap you upside the head and remind you of that. Wow. Way to start off. So let's talk about the men's group groups. Men usually don't think about therapy. You know, we're raised to be the hunter-gatherer, you know, but I think a men group makes it more plausible for men where it doesn't seem like therapy, but it kind of is. Speak to that for me.

[00:09:44] Look, traditional modern therapy, honestly, I don't like it for men because it's a very feminized art. A lot of the practitioners are women, not that that's that in and of itself, but the assumptions are very feminized. And what they try to do is turn men into defective women. And we're not women. We cannot be defective women. But we do need a place where we can air out our shit. We can have a conversation, a real conversation.

[00:10:11] So if you're with a strong masculine oriented person, you know, a coach, a person you can speak to, a men's group, this is a chance for you to get all the shit off your plate. Right. So there's a room in the space for one-on-one conversations about what you're dealing with. But I just don't call it therapy. Like the man that I was with, Owen Williams, this man is a coach for men going through relationship distress.

[00:10:39] And believe me, it was nothing like therapy. He listened to me, but his conversations with me were very masculine and all around me taking accountability and not making me feel bad for being a defective woman. Because I'm a man. He understood that. He understood the glory and the failures of manhood and men.

[00:11:00] And when you're in a group of men, you know, assuming that it's the right group of men where confidentiality is respected and honored, you can let all that out. And over time, the poison will leach out of your body and you'll heal. And you'll come to a place where you're going to learn about yourself. You're going to forgive yourself. You're going to forgive her. And you're going to be in a space where you can move forward.

[00:11:28] And the more men are with men, the better it is. We all need masculine-only environments and spaces and groups. The world has denuded them of us, denuded us of them. Excuse me. There's not very many masculine-only spaces anymore. And we need them very badly. There are feminine-only spaces for women. Tons of them. But we need this to become a thing again for men. There is a difference.

[00:11:56] So in your book, Finish Line Thinking, you talk about the champion mindset. How can a divorced guy apply that champion mindset to recover emotionally and mentally after a divorce? The first thing he's got to do is let the pain leach out, okay? Because you're not going to be a champion mindset person when you're just wracked with pain. And there's got to be a space where you give yourself some room and some space to get rid of all that.

[00:12:27] Because, you know, day after your wife leaves you or, you know, serves you with papers or sends the cops to your door and you spend the night in jail, you and I both know that happens to men, right? That happens to men. That's not the day you're going to go, well, I'm going to just take my champion mindset and dust it off and this is all going to go away. It's not going to happen. That's when you need your men and you need to, like, tell them what happened and let them hold you up. Because there are times you need to be held up.

[00:12:55] But once all that's done, then yes, there's room and space for you to start thinking like a winner again. And reading books like mine and listening to podcasts like yours is how men do it. Fill your head with positivity. That's how you'll win. Wow. So what are some of the common mental roadblocks that some men have in a divorce recovery? What are things that kind of hamper them, you know?

[00:13:21] And one would be not acknowledging your emotions for sure. That's a big one. What are some of the others? Well, blaming her and staying in blame. Blaming yourself and staying in blame. That's another one. There's a difference, an distinction between blame and responsibility, right? You know, blame is pointing at the person, making them bad and wrong.

[00:13:51] Responsibility is empowering and it's about giving the person the opportunity to shift things. I think those are the most important things. And you got to acknowledge your emotions, especially your anger. But if you stay in anger, you're never going to recover. That anger will eat you up. It'll spit you out. It really will. You've worked with some of the top entrepreneurs and leaders.

[00:14:20] What lessons from their resilience can divorce men apply to their own lives? Success is a team sport. I love that. You are not going to get through this on your own. On yourself? There is no way. You need a group of men. You need to be in a men's group, the right men's group. You need coaches. You need mentors. You need friends to go kick a ball around with. Shoot some hoops. There you go. Whatever it takes.

[00:14:50] And more than anything is you need your men. And, you know, I love women, okay? I want you to hear me clearly. I love women. I'm in a relationship with a great woman right now. It's amazing. But if you want to get better and stronger, your woman, that's not her job. Her job is to love you. Her job is to believe in you. Your men's job is to push your ass out of your comfort zone. And you need that. See, here's what I say to men.

[00:15:20] Inside of you is the spirit of a warrior and a badass. That's who you really are. You just temporarily forgot. And I'm here to remind you. Take care of that. So, a lot of men over 40, they feel like their best years are behind them after getting divorced. That's a huge problem, too. How can they reinvent themselves and find new purpose? Well, that's an interesting thought. Do you know who Warren Buffett is?

[00:15:50] Oh, yeah. I went to school right down the street from him. Well, there you go. Have you heard of his late, great business partner, Charlie Munger, who just passed away? Charlie Munger was his business partner. Charlie Munger, in his 40s, got sick, got divorced, lost his wife, lost his three kids. He was broke and destitute. Charlie Munger did not end up making his first million until he was 58 years old.

[00:16:19] Okay. And by the time he passed away, he was the second largest shareholder in Berkshire Hathaway. So, he was worth tens of billions of dollars. Charlie Munger's story of success didn't begin until he was 58. Eight. Okay. Ray Kroc, who revolutionized McDonald's, was in his late fees before he even got started with McDonald's. So, there's... Who's the other fella? Colonel Sanders.

[00:16:49] Oh, God, yeah. 57 years old when he started peddling his Kentucky Fried Chicken recipe and getting a thousand rejections before he got one. Yes. Are you kidding me, bro? You just got experience. You got something up on these little whippersnappers that are full of life and energy but no wisdom and experience. You are ready to kick their butt. God has prepared you. Remember, it is happening for you, not to you. It is happening for you, not to you.

[00:17:20] You are in the best part of your life now. I'm so excited for you. Obviously. So, how can men use the divorce experience as a catalyst for personal growth and transformation? Transformation is one of the things that guys have a hard time, you know, don't move my cheese. The cheese has been moldy and sitting in the same spot for so long. How can that move that cheese so they can move on with their lives?

[00:17:47] Well, find another man who's hurting worse than you and pour into him because there's plenty of them out there. A lot of men wallow in their own crap for too long. Stop doing that. Find a man worse off than you and pour into him. So, you've spoken about the power of thought leadership. How can divorced men become leaders in their own lives and communities? Well, the way that I do it is, the way that I did it is, I joined a men's group and then I got into leadership and then I started my own group and I started helping men.

[00:18:14] So, I mean, you can do something like that or you can find a group of your own and you can join it and you can be all about serving the men in there. When you're in a group, if you're all about those men and not all about you, you will win. If it's all about you and what's going on for you, you won't win. Life is a team sport. Success is a team sport. God intends for you to be around people. Life is a social activity.

[00:18:43] Help other people and you will be helped in return. Remember, in the Bible it says, to those who have much, much more is given. To those who have nothing, even that little that they have is taken away. And what that basically means is that a giver gets. A giver gets. You want to be a leader in your community? Start by finding one person you can lead and help. One person. There's got to be one person who will look up to something about. Wow, that's an interesting point. That makes a lot of sense.

[00:19:12] I never thought of it that way. Every time a person asks me, what's the best way to recover from divorce? I say, start a podcast. There you go. Nikki, I have learned from people like you. And every time I do a show, I learn something. I agree. And it's just phenomenal. What about the co-parenting piece? We don't talk about that too much. Mine was very ugly. And the thing that got me through it was I professed.

[00:19:42] I said, you know, I love my kids more than I hate my ex. So that kind of propelled me through it. And it was kind of a selfish or non-selfish thing. But man, some of those guys struggle with co-parenting because some women make it tough. What about those guys? Listen, at first, my ex-wife made it tough for me.

[00:20:01] But there was a point during the process when I went to her and I said, look, for whatever it's worth, I take full responsibility for the breakdown of our marriage. It's all on me, not on you. I apologize. And I'm here to make our sons succeed. And I know we both share that. So tell me what you think we need to do in order to have that happen. And not in the moment, but over time, that chipped away at her anger and it chipped away at her desire to hurt.

[00:20:31] And it made it easier to co-parent. And I tell every man, you want to do this. It's the manly thing to do because she's never going to do it. Never. Women aren't designed to take accountability. Accountability is a man thing. I know a whole lot of feminazis are going to come screaming at me, but that's the truth. That's the truth. And I'm not saying men are better than women for this. So hear me. I didn't say that at all. I'm just saying we're different.

[00:21:00] Women have different strengths that we don't have and we have strengths they don't have. Take accountability. Tell her you're here to do whatever it takes that's best for the children. And tell her that you will never speak badly of her to the children. You will always honor her to the children because you understand that the children are half her. And regardless of anything else that's going on between the two of you, these children were conceived in love and they deserve a mother and a father. The most successful children are those who have a mother and a father.

[00:21:28] And tell her that it is your intention to work with her to make sure that those children know that their mother and father love them. And trust me, no woman, no matter how angry she is at you, if she has that kind of conversation coming from you toward her, there's no woman who's going to want to see her kids get messed up. Not a one. Not a one.

[00:21:54] And no matter how angry she is at you, we need to understand that women are a thousand times less confident than a man. A thousand times. And they take self-criticism to another level. If you know, if you learn how to speak to her and you don't go on offense with her, she's going to, she's going to, in her mind, she's going to go, oh my God, I fucked up my kids because I broke up with their dad. Did I make a mistake?

[00:22:22] That thought will go through her head when you say something like that to her. Did I make a mistake? And even if the marriage can't be redeemed, she will respond to that and make sure that you and your kids will be in a situation that the kids aren't hurt by not having access to their father. Women are not horrible creatures who go to hurt you just for the hell of it. They feel hurt.

[00:22:49] And they, when they feel hurt, their emotions are in charge. And when their emotions are in charge, you're screwed. Yep. Strike out. You need to get the right emotions in charge of her, not the wrong ones. And if you just go and you blame her for being angry and hurting you and all this stuff, you're an idiot. Your kids deserve better than that kind of attitude from you. They just do. If you, all you want to do is blame her and congratulations, you're going to fuck up your kids. And it will be on you that you fucked up your kids.

[00:23:19] But if you can transcend that and you can see the good in this woman and in the fact that she's their mother and you can have that dialogue, even if she won't speak to you, even if it's got to be through text or email or a friend, you've got to get that message to her. You must. No excuses. No bullshit. I'm not here to blame women. I'm not one of these dudes who goes on social media and has these long-ass videos saying how horrible women are and that men are this and men are that. You know what?

[00:23:49] I got news for you. The world has fucked up men and women for the last 60 years. And we could, that's a whole other conversation for another podcast. But you as the man, you've got what it takes to lead, even in this situation. And it's your job to lead, man. It's your job. You got to lead. Your kids deserve it. My sons would be completely screwed up and not masters of their life right now

[00:24:16] if I had been the idiot I was at the beginning of the breakup. The only reasons my sons are doing well is that I made a commitment, a commitment that they were going to do well. And I would do whatever it takes. I would swallow whatever I had to swallow for them to do well. Because their success was way more important than my ego. Sure. Definitely. So you've helped a ton of entrepreneurs create million-dollar practices.

[00:24:44] What advice would you give to divorced men looking to rebuild their careers or start fresh professionally? Find a mentor, someone like me. Sit down with them. Tell them what you have in mind. And get help. Get help. You know, you want to be successful. You got to have three qualities. You got to be decisive and committed. That means, yep, I made a decision this is going to happen. I'm committed to getting good at it because right now I suck at it. Suck is a technical business term, David.

[00:25:13] And secondly, you got to be willing to invest in yourself and be coachable. Okay. You are the most important asset in your life, in your business. Businesses invest in assets all the time. The most important asset should get the most investment. Correct. Right? And thirdly, you got to be resourceful. You got to come up with the time, energy, and money to make it happen.

[00:25:37] And I just love these men who just go, well, you know, I don't want to spend $5,000 on coaching. That's a lot of money. Oh, it's a lot of money, is it? A lot more money than the $250,000 you just blew on lawyers because you were an idiot? You spend that $5,000 on coaching, maybe you wouldn't be going through a divorce. Maybe you wouldn't have to spend $250,000 of your children's money on lawyers. Well, I was going to ask you your top three things, but you already hooked me up. So I really appreciate it.

[00:26:07] Man, this is one of those podcasts that went way different than I thought, and I appreciate it. You got me thinking about a lot of things, Nicky. Damn. And that is the reason they call me the world's greatest podcast guest, bro. Well, bro, let the people out there know where to find you. Nicky Ballou is my name. And the best way to find me is come and have a phone call with me. And I've got a place you can book one.

[00:26:36] It's ecircleacademy.com forward slash appointment. It's called a success call. If you have a business and you want to talk about how to get yourself unstuck, do that. If you're going through hell in your life for your marriage and you just want a man to listen to you, do that. If you just want to talk and say hello, do that. Look a call with me. There you go. And we will have the attachment in the show notes.

[00:27:03] But Nicky, I really appreciate your time, man. This has been very interesting. I'm looking forward to doing the editing on this, and it will go from there. But phone on the phone. We'll go ahead and clock this out. But hey, thank you again for your time. And just hold on. Here we go.