Being a better version of yourself during or after your divorce - Bill Simpson || Don’t Pick the Scab Podcast #040 || David M. Webb

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Don't Pick The Scab Podcast with the premise of connecting men over 40 with the tools and community to thrive in their divorce recovery either before, during or after a divorce. Welcome everybody out there to Don't Pick The Scab Podcast, a podcast for

[00:00:29] men over 40 either going through a divorce or just out of one trying to heal. Welcome Bill Simpson to the show. He has been a professional coach for over 20 years. His superpower is helping

[00:00:41] his clients be the best versions of themselves. He is presently in his second season of his podcast, Men on the Path to Love Podcast. So tell us a little bit about your background Bill and we got some questions for you and we'll go from there.

[00:00:54] Bill Simpson Well I started out as a child so that's how far you want to go back. My original career was in radio. I was a radio broadcaster for 35 years and in that process I've been through three divorces and part of that had

[00:01:28] been dealing with the stress of doing a high profile morning show and relationship stress. A lot of stressful things going on in my life, some losses and finally sought therapy and through that I started to become really impassioned about my own

[00:01:48] personal growth and spiritual growth. So as a part of that I became so impassioned that I started getting certified in various modalities of the healing arts and through that learning a lot about relationship and divorcing three times till I finally got it right fourth

[00:02:08] time. And the inspiration for what I'm doing now is in terms of being a relationship coach for men is that, A, I went through hell trying to get through relationship and three divorces

[00:02:22] not a whole lot of fun and so I thought well I could help men not have to go through all that in order to be in a healthy relationship. And secondly was my experience working as

[00:02:34] a mind body educator and integrative therapy practitioner at a major health clinic in Philadelphia where most of my clients were women, I'd say about 80% and I kept getting the same feedback over and over about the men in these women's lives that they loved and wanted to be in

[00:02:52] relationship with yet they just, they couldn't be, men couldn't be vulnerable. They couldn't talk about their feelings. They couldn't be open. They were defensive when they would give any feedback and all these things and I started seeing this common denominator

[00:03:07] and when I would say to these women, well what if he said this or what if he were to do that? And they're like man that's a game changer. That would make all the difference

[00:03:15] in the world. And that's when the light bulb went off to say you know what because of the practice that I do I know I can teach these men how to do these things

[00:03:26] that women are looking for and not only just for the women but most importantly for themselves so that they become a better version of themselves for themselves. And when you do that you're automatically going to be in a better place in relationship.

[00:03:42] So going through a divorce men, you know men already suck at communication and in a contested divorce or contentious divorce, divorce that communication is even worse. What kind of tips, tricks or methods can you tell men to try to table or try to be a better

[00:04:00] communicator going through the divorce even after the divorce? Yeah well I think in communicating period is to be able to listen. And one of the things I say a lot and preach a lot is reality is in the eye of the receiver. And what

[00:04:20] that means is what you experience is your reality. It may not be mine but it's yours. So if I say to you, you know David stop yelling at me or I need you to stop yelling and you're not yelling at me you don't think you're yelling and you

[00:04:37] said I'm not yelling at you what are you talking about? Well you're missing the reality of that person so it's okay tell me more tell me how I'm yelling at you because you know because if you go right into defense mode no I didn't

[00:04:52] know I'm not then that's that can go on for days right? And if you say oh I'm sorry that you're experiencing me that way how did I do that? You're not saying you're wrong, you're not saying you're right, you're just trying to validate

[00:05:09] their experience. Oh well it wasn't that you were yelling at me it's just your tone of voice. Oh okay so it's how I said it yeah okay so when you can take the time to listen and validate their experience whether it's right or wrong

[00:05:24] or whether you think they're right or wrong it doesn't matter it's just validating them and when you can do that that other person feels seen, that other person feels heard and then they're more open to that communication

[00:05:36] process. So that's the first thing is to listen and then the second thing is to is to validate that experience oh well you know I can see if you experienced me that way my tone of voice that that might have been hurtful to

[00:05:51] you so you know let me know if I do that and if I do you know point it out to me because I don't want to do that to you it wasn't my intention. So that you

[00:06:02] know communication listening is a huge part of that and then be able to reflect what that other person said so that they're clear that you're clear that they understand and you understand where things are then you can start to

[00:06:15] deal with the problem but until both of you feel seen and heard then it's really hard to get anywhere in any type of negotiation or communication process. So the word empathy, 97% of men have no clue what the hell that is so go ahead explain that

[00:06:35] and how can you work on that what's what's a way to work on that. Yeah empathy in a in a simple way of explaining it is putting yourself in someone else's shoes

[00:06:47] and it's kind of like what I said about their experience you know and let them if you don't understand their experience ask them and until you're clear about where things are and to

[00:07:00] validate where they are not your opinion of it not you know your defensiveness your walls go up it's just wow that must be really hard for you. You know what you're going through I can't imagine

[00:07:12] how hard that is so that you don't try to fix the problem and a lot of times that's what men do we want to fix it and move on okay done and what the other person wants especially your

[00:07:25] wife or your estranged spouse or whatever they don't necessarily want you to fix it they just want you to be want you to see them and hear them and that's what a lot of what empathy is all about

[00:07:38] is putting yourself in their shoes and imagining what it would be like even if you haven't had that experience. What's a good way to start to express our feelings you know going through

[00:07:50] a divorce a lot of men are bottled up and they need to express those feelings what some of the ways they could do or one of the opportunities they could use to express those feelings.

[00:08:03] Well that's tough um and you know the first thing first and foremost is knowing what you're feeling for yourself before you can express it and sometimes the other person doesn't necessarily

[00:08:17] have to know as long as you know and a lot of times as men we're conditioned we don't know we don't know what we're feeling we're not really here to acknowledge that we just suck it up and move forward

[00:08:29] and so when you can pause and whatever it is that you're going through if you're if you notice your heart rate going up if you start to feel angry or you're feeling a bit anxious or nervous

[00:08:42] about something it's just feeling it in your body first like what's happening well my heart's being fast well what am I feeling oh i might be anxious i might be angry these things start to bubble up

[00:08:56] so it's you first and foremost acknowledging what you're feeling and then you can decide how much of that you want to share and let me tell you whether it's going through divorce or in your relationship chances are your significant other really wants to know how you're feeling

[00:09:15] and understanding that say anger is a feeling that doesn't mean you have to act out aggressively and that's what we oftentimes equate anger with you know with being aggressive and so you can

[00:09:30] say you're angry without yelling and screaming and and acting out in an aggressive way um you can say and you know your partner is going to appreciate you for saying i'm feeling angry right

[00:09:43] now you know um or i'm feeling a little anxious i'm feeling a little nervous or i'm feeling a little sad you may not know why and it doesn't matter it's just you recognize that's what you're feeling

[00:09:54] and when you can do that the other person can let their guard down and feel relaxed because they know something's going on but if you're like you know what's wrong honey

[00:10:06] nothing and you shut down well they know something's going on and so you know it's bs if you say nothing but if you say you know what i even if you say i don't know what i'm feeling right now but i just

[00:10:19] need a minute or a need you know i need to step out for a second then they know but to completely shut down then that just creates all kinds of tension and makes the other person wonder

[00:10:31] what's going on and they don't believe you when you say nothing so first and foremost acknowledging it within yourself and then deciding how much of that you want to share and you don't have to go

[00:10:45] into all kinds of details it's just i'm feeling a little anxious right now or i'm feeling nervous or i'm feeling sad and maybe that's enough to let the other person let their guard down

[00:10:56] what are some of the ways or the ways we can asmian kind of relax on the need to dominate and control the relationship you know it's almost like it's a society norm right well for decades

[00:11:12] probably even longer than that i mean say centuries we've been conditioned to be in control to be the dominant force in the relationship and now we've evolved to where it's really about

[00:11:24] equality in the relationship and that's hard for some men to swallow yet that's going to be your best way to be in relationship and you know let you know it's not letting the the spouse be the

[00:11:40] dominant force either it's you both trying to having equal weight in in this and so the natural tendency of the urge would be to you know try to take control and when you feel that urge coming on

[00:11:55] check in with yourself and say and hold up am i trying to dominate here or am i giving my partner equal say here or whatever um check in with yourself first and if you know we or and the next thing

[00:12:12] is take in the feedback that you might be getting from your spouse or your act is just taking in that feedback and you know there's always a little a grain of truth and some sort of feedback you know

[00:12:25] some feedback is criticism and put downs and all that kind of stuff um but if you're getting feedback that hey you know you're always trying to be in control no i'm not well that's controlling

[00:12:39] in itself right control yeah right so it's taking in that feedback tell me how i did the how do you how do you feel controlled what am i doing that makes you feel that way and then when she can

[00:12:51] explain that to you in a way that's helpful then you can get some feedback and say hey well if i do that again let me know because i don't want to do that to you it's almost like everything

[00:13:03] i've asked you you kind of take a pause you don't go with the first reaction right yeah because you know it's i'm like that first reaction gets you in trouble that's right yeah if you fire right off

[00:13:15] the hip you know it's that's a more than likely a subconscious response and most of our behaviors are subconscious and when you become aware of that then feedback is really important because you're just acting on automatic pilot and when you can pause and check in with yourself

[00:13:36] then you can start that process a little easier what is a love mission a love mission well my love mission is to help men be a better version of themselves for themselves and in

[00:13:51] relationship and so therefore the the title of my podcast men on the path to love and it really starts with self-love loving yourself and lord we're not taught that at all especially as men

[00:14:06] and and most of us you know in the human race we don't we don't we may be a kind person to other people and and you know all that have compassion for other people but when it comes to ourselves

[00:14:19] we're pretty damn hard on ourselves um and especially men but i see a lot of women and their heart on themselves they're the caretakers they're out there for everybody but they're not taking care of themselves and men are trying to be out there doing the you know

[00:14:35] provider thing and you know and being strong all that yet they don't take the time to look at themselves to say i got to be kind to myself as i would my spouse my kids my neighbors you

[00:14:47] know my family whatever um and it's so easy to get caught in in that you know i can be kind to them but when it comes to ourselves you know we we see somebody fall down and scrape their knee

[00:14:58] oh man i'm so sorry you're all right can i help you we do it and like damn you idiot what are you doing you know we beat ourselves up so when we can yeah when we can have some compassion for

[00:15:09] ourselves and it's not you know it's it's not self pity it's not woe is me you know my life sucks and she sucks she's you know blah blah blah it's damn it's hard going through this divorce

[00:15:21] it's painful and you know and that's what's real it's painful and to acknowledge that pain find it in your body where are you feeling that pain and sit with it notice it maybe my heart's

[00:15:34] pounding because i'm angry at what she did she's leaving me or whatever uh or just the sadness of you know being away from my kids and all those things i mean i've been there done that and

[00:15:46] it's finding it in your body sitting with it let yourself feel it let yourself feel that anger you don't have to go out and aggressive be aggressive you can i always say go out in the

[00:15:56] woods and break you know hit sticks or something against a tree or you know screaming a pillow if you're indoors to get it out of your system so you're not taking it out on other people

[00:16:05] and then finding that place whether if you're sad you know not being with your kids sit with that because what you feel is how you heal and you sit with that you miss your kids

[00:16:15] find it in your body sit with it and tell yourself you know even though i feel sad i love and accept myself just as i am right now and you know you hear a lot about affirmations and you can just say

[00:16:29] you know i'm i'm happy i am i am this i am that well you know affirmations are cool but you're missing the pain so you want to acknowledge the pain and then affirm the positive

[00:16:42] so even though i feel sad that's acknowledging the pain then say i love and accept myself just as i am right now or i'm angry and for me i hate i hate i angry feel so ugly to me yet

[00:16:56] you got to acknowledge it i feel angry and even though i feel angry i love and accept myself just as i am right now find it in your body sit with it breathe and let it pass because it will

[00:17:10] and then when it comes up again repeat as often as necessary so that that's the first step right there and you know the love heart is loving yourself and when you can do that you're open to a lot more

[00:17:23] love in relationship no matter what kind of relationship it is in some of my reddit groups and some of my men divorce facebook groups um in the co-parenting space a lot of them have

[00:17:35] a hard time letting go you know your two households and i have to learn that when you go to dad's house dad's rules and we go to mom's house mom's rules right you know they don't kind of interconnect

[00:17:49] a little bit but a lot of these guys are having a hard time letting it go you know not being able to control what happens at mom's house which i think is kind of idiotic but that's a different

[00:17:57] story what do you say to these guys you can't let it go let it go i mean i mean what's what's it doing what's it doing for you to not let go and when you hold on to

[00:18:10] something that's not going to change i mean you know it's it's if you got a divorce agreement it's in the agreement you know it's the law right so you know what's the point and banging your

[00:18:23] head against the wall hoping something's going to change when it doesn't and one of the things i say a lot you know in relationship and you know i work with staff at where i work is you

[00:18:35] know you don't have to leave you've got to change your reason for staying and changing your reason for this whole situation if you think you're gonna getting mad and getting all upset and not

[00:18:49] letting go is going to change anything well it's not is it working for you yet no so it was not working for you you got to make a change and it's not to say that letting go is easy letting

[00:19:03] go is hard especially if you're digging your heels in right you know it's it's it's natural to want to go back to the way it was or having more access to your kids and all those things and again it

[00:19:16] goes back to self-compassion and saying this is hard i miss my kids you know or they get away with something over there that they don't get away at my house and vice versa um all those things

[00:19:29] are real and it's allowing yourself to feel it letting go is not about not feeling it it's feeling it and then letting go and acknowledging that it's hard steps yeah yeah two steps uh you talk about

[00:19:46] i think on the website i saw where you talk about making a change mm-hmm change is hard like you just said change is hard no doubt what's some of the ways that guys can use some modalities to

[00:19:58] create a change and keep that change in place that's a great question um first and foremost is being open to change and men do not want to change most of us don't but especially men no especially

[00:20:17] and you know that's one of my biggest challenges in uh and attaining clients is that men don't want to change you know the women here we talk about all this stuff and they're like yeah yeah yeah you

[00:20:28] know you know i want to send my husband to you and they're like oh no that's all right yeah good right i'm good but the thing is once they do take that step then then and

[00:20:42] they're open to change um then you know the world is open to them and change takes a lot of reinforcement so you know first and foremost it's understanding that it's hard and that the way the brain works is

[00:21:00] we're used to our subconscious patterns our automatic pilot right that i mentioned earlier and so it wants to breathe it wants to be status quo and so when we try to put change

[00:21:13] in the brain the brain's like uh no i'm not going there and so we have to override mind over matter or matter over mind however you want to look at it you have to override that

[00:21:25] and so you can accept that you want it to do the old way acknowledge it and do what's important to you what matters to you i don't care what you're thinking i don't care what you're feeling i don't

[00:21:36] care what your physical urges are you can accept all that acknowledge it and go for what's important to you what matters to you and if change is important to you then you do that not what

[00:21:50] your subconscious wants you to do or you know those patterns want you to do and that's really hard and what often happens you know you prime example is addiction someone goes in they get some

[00:22:02] counseling um maybe rehab whatever and then they relapse well that's because the way i describe the brain it wants to go back to what it's used to doing how to cope with the stress so they

[00:22:15] want to cope with self-medication right so it's understanding that that's how the brain works and a lot of times men give up in this process because oh well i tried that and it didn't work

[00:22:29] because i took a step back i'm back into the same stuff i was doing before and then they give up and that's short sighted because it's a it's a process that takes time so when you can acknowledge that it's hard and understand that that's how the brain works

[00:22:46] that i may take a step back doesn't mean i'm done it means i took a step back and i'll take a step forward the next time and the more you take those steps forward then you're creating a new pattern

[00:22:58] in your brain literally new neural pathway and you start to shift to make that change so being open to change and understanding that change is hard it is a process and that the brain

[00:23:11] works the way it does and that you can accept all those other patterns and all those other thoughts feelings body sensations you don't act according to that you act according to what's important and if you want to change you will wow all very important points bill very interesting

[00:23:31] so you have a chance to give three important points what are your three biggest takeaways for my men over 40 divorcing wow um you know i think about my my three divorces um

[00:23:48] and you know my first one i i i'd had i did i discovered that i had an abandonment issue right my mom died when i was well she left when i was eight died when i was 13 had no communication

[00:23:59] with her in between that and the same year my mother died my oldest brother was killed and it was i was 13 years old you know and i could mourn i didn't have any feelings i didn't

[00:24:11] even acknowledge it until maybe 10 years later and what i was doing in relationship was overlapping so i would be in one relationship this started in high school i had one girlfriend and then

[00:24:22] i'd meet another one and then i would start something with her and then drop the other one and that even happened in my first marriage um and what i what i eventually learned and

[00:24:37] was that i had to be okay with myself and that was it took me years to to figure this out and once i stopped overlapping and just being with myself and being okay with myself

[00:24:52] that was the big step and i remember my second marriage when i went to a divorce i at the time i had a 27 room house this big behind house and i had a dog we had i had

[00:25:06] we had a child together and she had four kids so it was a big house house of kids and dogs and you know all that and my uh my daughter went to live with her and her kids initially

[00:25:19] and i remember being in my empty living room no furniture just a little rug on the floor and i was bawling my eyes out because i was i was alone yet that was the that was the catalyst

[00:25:33] that said you know what i need to be okay with me so being okay with yourself having a lone time and using that alone time after your divorce to heal because it takes time to heal

[00:25:47] whether you ask for the divorce or they ask for the divorce it doesn't matter you need that time to heal and give it to yourself and if you need help please go out and get it or do some

[00:26:00] research online or watch some videos or whatever to learn about how to heal from that process give yourself that time to be alone to be okay with you and then move forward

[00:26:14] and getting help if you if the if you were she asked you for the divorce and left you take some time to look at yourself and say hmm wonder what i did that could have caused this

[00:26:29] and that is really important if you move on to the next relation because you're going to repeat the same patterns you're going to find the same type of person and you're going to wonder how

[00:26:40] how did i do that like why do these same people keep showing up well no it's you keep doing the same patterns that these people are reacting to make sense so yeah so you know it's it's really taking

[00:26:55] a good look at yourself because i could blame my ex is for everything and and i'm just okay well no everybody has something in this process it takes two it's not just one-sided and even if

[00:27:09] in an abusive relationship it still goes both ways and so it's looking at yourself what can i do when i'm before i move to the next relationship what can i do to improve myself wow and then once you do

[00:27:25] meet someone new it's you know asking them for feedback being open being vulnerable tell him tell her how you feel tell them being having empathy you know being open and understanding know those things and validate their experience whether it's right or wrong or those things i was

[00:27:41] saying earlier um and and if you're not looking at moving forward in relationship again it's you know being the best version of you to heal to give yourself time that divorce is worse than

[00:27:58] the loss of a loved one it really is if you think about it because when someone dies that's it right they're gone and that's really sad when you are somebody leaves you was gone and

[00:28:12] right and the person still alive yet it's like a death because you're no longer with that person and it can be really hard when you have kids because you can't really you know they can't

[00:28:24] completely get that person out of the picture because you have that common you know denominator of your kids so when with that i always encourage focus on the kids not her you're there for the kids

[00:28:39] and be there for them and don't bash your ex in front of your kids no they're gonna figure it out at some point in life you don't have to tell them so well mr bill we want to thank you

[00:28:52] for hanging out with us this morning we had a little technical difficulties so but we worked it out tell the people where to find you on the internet and i'll have those connections on the

[00:29:04] bottom of show notes sounds good my website is men on the path to love dot com and you can access my podcast there um and you can also find the podcast men on the path to love on apple spotify

[00:29:20] most of the major platforms all right sir we want to thank you thank you for your time bill we definitely have to come back and do this again because i think we got some more stuff that we

[00:29:29] didn't talk about absolutely i'd love to and david thanks so much for reaching out i think what you're doing is great that demographic you know over 40 definitely needs that support and that's how you heal too by getting support like this so keep up the good work oh yeah